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I’ve recently noticed that there are quite a few stories scattered across the internet about frustrations with the Berry Tree. Many of them are included in some rather nasty reports with messages such as “Don’t join the berry tree scam” and “this company is a rip-off.“
So, I figured it would be rather helpful to look at some of these specific rumors and claims against the Berry tree’s performance, progress, and credibility. Which of them have some partial truths? And which claims are so far-fetched that we should laugh them off without a second thought? I can’t list all of them, but here are some of the popular examples:
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“They claimed after 2 years, your tree would be full, and you would be making over $1300 per month.”
Although I wasn’t personally around during the ground-breaking of the Berry tree, this sure seems like one far-fetched rumor. The founders and major influences behind the Berry Tree, such as Matt Yonan and Art Phelps, would know better than to directly make such a careless promise to all members. They know full well that even the ideal network marketing system cannot necessarily guarantee an individual’s success to this extreme level.
I believe $1300 per month is a realistic goal, as I know many people who have accomplished this monthly level of success. However, only those who are willing to be patient and ready to work to build their business are going to achieve these commission levels.
BTW- The original statement is taken right from a complaint at RipOffReport.com, thanks to a “Mrs. Pickle:” http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/289/RipOff0289597.htm
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“The company claimed they would do all the work for me!”
I hear this one a LOT. It is true that the company promised that special promotions would take place to generate spillover for all Berry Tree members on a fair basis. It’s also true that these intended promotions faced an unfortunate delay.
However, it is certainly NOT true that the Berry Tree program guaranteed anything specific to those who sat still and waited on spillover to determine the overall success or failure of their business. It is very helpful and encouraging when a MLM program makes an effort to supply spillover, but that spillover should never be considered anything more than an extra bonus. This is not a get-rich-quick scam; your overall success in this program will depend on individual, consistent effort.
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“The bonus pools stopped increasing as promised. When will the bronze pool reach $500?”
Apparently, there are at least a couple people out there who were told that the bronze pool alone would reach unrealistic levels. Either they are making it up, or they had a upline who was feeding them hype and/or false information.
There’s not too much more to say about this one; it’s just plain wrong. It’s true that some bonus pools- including bronze and silver- were decreasing in value for a while. But, the pools are now on the way up again. They are expected to reach levels in the $100-200 range very soon; just don’t expect any ridiculous levels of $500 or so.
For more information about projected Bonus Pool progress, read our latest article: “Bonus Pools – Soon to Increase?”
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Just remember there will always be people out there creating rumors and twisting words. We are dealing with an industry in which the vast majority joins in hopes of receiving a “free lunch,” and then quits once they realize MLM success requires commitment. And, of course, people love to vent as a result and blame the company, claiming it “must be a scam” or something similar.
Be careful who you believe out there. 
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- Ryan
RyzAutomatic@yahoo.com
I gotta say my upline really did spend a lot of time hyping up stories about the berry tree supplying monster levels of spillover, I sure haven’t seen that and don’t really expect his promises to come true. 1300 dol is a bit higher than what he was telling me, i think $5-600 or so would have been closer. I’m in bronze now and i’m only earning around $100 each month
I won’t throw a huge fuss because I am in profit and that is something to be thankful for. but I was told that by doing nothing and not even trying to recruit I could be making around $500 as long as I waited for a year and continued my autoships. I’m nearly three quarters of the way there and not seeing any sign of that kind of money. but i do realize that this is not the company’s fault so I wont bother to blame the berry tree execs. I’m just a bit flustered by the unnecessary hype that was dished my way.
thanks,
Z. L.
Hello Zeek,
You raise a good point that is definitely worth repeating:
Unnecessary hype from uplines and leaders will hurt an organization.
I’m not entirely sure what your upline told you, but I am disappointed to hear that he was potentially misrepresenting the berry tree and his role as a distributor. An upline’s responsibility is to ensure that his downlines are aware and understand the program by giving accurate descriptions and realistic projections.
Sorry for any trouble this may have caused you, assuming he truly did state you could earn “$500 for doing nothing” within a year. That is most certainly not true in the majority of circumstances for this program.
- Ryan
Sounds to me like we’re just looking at a bunch of excuses. That happens all the time. People are never willing to take responsibility for their own shortcomings. If they didn’t become millionaires, then they have to blame their upline, or the MLM, or the trainers, or the commission plan, and on and on. You see this all the time.
Yeah I’ve read through that whole rip off report you mentioned before. It’s so obvious that the complainer was either fed a list of BS or just looking for excuses because of her failure. It’s too bad to see people filing reports like that against a good company. It gives others a false impression of a great business.
you’re definitely right when you say you need to be careful who you believe on the internet. Good points.
Wishing you all a successful future with the berry tree,
Masid
bt’s system is a touch overrated imo. I do hear a lot of hype about the ‘credits’. so I can can start earning 90 dollars after nearly 2 years of committment? a $35 profit, nothing special. the product sounds somewhat helpful but thats probably the only reason id consider getting involved.
How does that make the Berry Tree overrated? You receive fast-start bonuses and residual payments. MLM isn’t designed to pay you for doing nothing. In the case with BT, we actually are lucky enough to be in a position to be rewarded just for staying commited.
Think of berry tree credits and the bonus pool prizes as an extra, special feature- but NOT the core of the business.
REPLY > to berrytreeinfo
Thanks ryan. I really do like the program and appreciate the berry product. I just wish my upline would have been more realistic with me. i’m not sure why he felt that was necessary, i just thought it was plain crooked.
but it doesn’t matter so much, I’ve moved on and I’m looking forward to the new berry tree campaigns
thanks again,
Z.L.
If someone tells you that you can make $1300 by doing nothing it should be an immediate indication that they are lying. Common sense
Just my opinion -
Dave
I agree with you, Dave. And this is not to say that I’m an advocate for turning a blind eye to manipulative uplines. I think it’s terrible that some members are deceiving people for extra commission. But I also feel that all prospects have an obligation to examine the claims presented to them and use common sense guidelines to evaluate the words and promises.
What comes handy in a time like this? You’ve all heard it before, ‘If it’s too good to be true, then it probably is.’
REPLY TO “KYLE S.”
You are shooting an unnecessary bullet.
You assume that the individual will refuse or be unable to recruit anyone during those 2 years (which actually takes less time than your estimate.)
MLM isn’t designed for the lazy. If you do nothing, you will receive nothing.
You should be looking at the berry tree credits as a unique opportunity and not a quick poke at a gold mine.
The BMC system of the berry tree is a one-of-a-kind, side bonus.
You’re not going to find another MLM that offers a reward for being lazy.
Instead of complaining about a small reward, why not realize that no other company would even repay you for loyalty.
Other companies only care about results and results only!!! Berry tree cares about both.
**
Viper,
Some people have to see triple or even quadruple digits before they’d credit any worth to a program. I can appreciate that logic with the cost of keeping up a home and family these days . . . But for someone to expect such rewards as a result of waiting and standing stone still? lol only in a dream world!
Regards,
Tarquin
Kyle’s 2 year estimate is a bit off. Neither is the answer complete. 20 months autoship is required for 10 credits and that is only given that the member does not have an automaticbuilder account. That alone reduces the time to 10-14 months, depending on the level. Junior exec gives you 1 credit every 4 months and Exec gives you a credit every 2 months. So you literally qualify for the bronze pool in half the time with automaticbuilder exec level and the berry tree autoship.
Dan
REPLY TO “Daniel Walsh”
I didn’t even touch specifications with this guy.
Profit can be promised within 10 months if you have the resources and willingness.
Exec in ab and full member in bt is the way to go.
And if you want to get there faster then start building. That’s all there really is to it!!
*** VipeR ***
I see we’ve started some good discussion here.
On the topic of BMCs and the bonus pool levels, I feel these aspects of the Berry Tree give the opportunity a unique competitive advantage in the MLM industry.
There are so many horror stories out on the internet about people with other MLM companies who tried to build for 3-5 years and failed. In the process, many of them lost $20-30,000!
You don’t have to worry about “failure” as an end-result with the Berry Tree, as long as you’re committed. I haven’t seen any other MLM opportunity with the same guarantee.
- Ryan
When i joined the BT No advertising and no sponsoring is what attracted me to the program. It was on all advertising that I looked at.
I also was attracted to company advertising spillover to get the credits or people for bonus pool. This hasn’t happened yet! and When enquiring about this i wasn’t given any idea when this would occur! Next year perhaps. Sigh! I expected to work and have been frantically advertising, On a very low budget, so using the free places to do this. No sponsors yet. Extremely frustrating.
My uplines have been really supportive and encouraging, sharing their expertise and this is a great plus.
MLM is business building and takes time, and really BT is only a section of what is available. AB is the main part and where the profit is but we have to apply ourselves as in any job anywhere.
Do wish I could make some money thugh, NOW that is why we join isn’t it? Buying the products for autoship is building my credit card debt as is the monthly cost for BT!
The rich get rich and the poor get poorer.
Company spillover was promised. I know full well, everyone, that some recruiters are telling ‘tall tales to top their line’ but we should not ignore the fact that bt leaders did promise all of us spillover sooner or later. Do we expect to get rich, no. Do we expect them to show up on every news stations, No. But should be expect spillover? damn straight! Even one member after this long term would be nice. ^Chris
Keyy 15 who don’t you get out if things are so bad?
what?!! and miss out on that ever so promising pile of corporate bonuses RB? nah nah i think i’ll just declare unconditional loyalty to a company that dramatically exerts ceasless hype toward a bonus worth a laughable 40 dollars….. and decreasing.
EDITED:
Blatant Spaming / Advertising
Wow Gabe. Way to spam the place up with your links. Heaven forbid you contribute anything to the discussion in the process.
Is this actually tolerated here, Admin?
Hello RedHonor,
No, we’re certainly not going to tolerate spam. You noticed the incident before me; otherwise, I would have edited it earlier.
All this time, I assumed there was an implied etiquette associated with blog comments that everyone was familiar with. Apparently, this assumption was incorrect. If other individuals have nothing to post but advertising and referral links, then they shouldn’t bother posting at all.
If the problem persists, I suppose I’ll have to draw up a list of posting guidelines or rules.
Now, back to our regular discussion, please.
Thanks.
Hello people,
I am a member of the BT and have been disappointed with the pay outs. According to the office starting in Jan of 08 the pools would increase but have been steadily declining. Once you reach 10 BMC’s the bronze pool should pay for the cost of your BT membership. The March pay out for the bronze pool was less than $34 and the silver was less than $35. I have received 1 person from spillover and 1 from the advertising from the Company. Yes you can get extra berry member credits by being a member of the automatic builder and Nutronix but the cost of that will be from $55.00 to $130.00 more per month depending on your level in Nutronix. So you could be spending $40 plus shipping for Nutronix as a Jr and $10 for AB plus your BT cost of $56 and when you reach the Bronze pool you get $34.00. It would take about 15 months to reach that level. Do the math. The Berry Tree promotes that you have to do nothing and you will succeed. No if and or buts but the people in here are saying that if you do nothing you get nothing. The BT is certainly a great idea but has not produced as promised. I am not saying join or not, I am only making you aware of what to expect. If you do not want to work the program then you will be waiting a long time for any rewards but they probably will come. I hope so anyway. I have been a member since May of 07. The most that we have ever been paid for the the Bronze pool is over $90.00 but never over $100.00 and that was for Dec. 07 and has went down every month since then.
Hey Richard, They are Enhancing the compensation plan for May good things on the horizon with a new product coming soon.
Also the corporate ad campaign has only been fully active for alittle over 2 months since Last Feb 2008 while many members been in for about a year May 2007 prior to corporate launch. The pools will be shifting as more and more join the Berry Tree.
As more folks join, the pools will grow. This is the only MLM opportunity that I know of that is fully 0% hands off.
Gary Smith’s Check was near $4000 in berry tree and mine has been around $1100 and growing steadily and that is not including what Nutronix is paying which is a lot more and it’s only going to keep growing.
The ones who stick it out are the ones who make it
God Bless,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Wanted to make a quick correction in my statement it’s 100% hands off.
Hey Richard,
Your concerns are definitely not uncommon; however, I have addressed many of your points in more recent articles. This current article was written in January, 08. I suggest looking through February-March, and you will notice quite a few topics that specifically explain berry tree bonus pool behavior, problems with the “passive” approach (I.e. the “investor’s” approach), and much more.
- Ryan
The thing is, I was not given grossly exaggerated figures such as $500 at the Bronze level. It was my understanding, however, that the Bronze level was in the 100 to 150 range (I actually saw 144 at the time) with a couple of hundred extra once you get to Silver, and Gold being in the 1000 to 1500 range, which is why the $1336 figure was often used in advertising. In fact, I read about that being the equivalent of the average Social Security pension and that I should be making that in 50 months (if also signing up for the “quick start”, it is true, which I did). Just out of the bonus pools, that is, not because of whatever recruiting I may be able to do, which I only saw as an extra, as I am not very good at recruiting and don’t know too many people.
That did not seem unreasonable to me. Nevertheless, since I have trouble recruiting and I would not even have considered joining if I had to rely on recruiting, I am now disappointed, because I was counting on the pool levels being higher and actually allowing me to make a profit after a certain level, probably Silver. I did not expect to make huge amounts of money, I was ready to wait all those months, and I understood that to make more, I would have to recruit, but still, this misunderstanding was a key factor in my decision to join.
Monica- I don’t know what you read or who told you this, but the Gold pool is not expected to reach any astounding rates in the $1000 range. $300 to $400 is a possibility in time, but even that….. well tough to say.
The $1336 is popular because it’s an exact figure for filling up your first tree. Once you have 584 people in your bt org, which fills up levels 1-3, you will earn $1336 through residuals. This figure has nothing to do with bonus pools.
But one important raincloud worth mentioning…many ignorant bt promoters and swindlers on the internet have mislead others to believe that they will receive the 1336 bucks a’ month in a couple years’ time just for collecting berry credits and earning company spill. This is highly, HIGHLY unlikely! In fact, blog admin ryan even made a video alerting others about hyping big mouths that are posting this ‘easy 1336′ crap. He throws some numbers at you that make you realize how stupid these peoples claims are lol.
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Hey Ryan! If you get a chance to read this please post a link to that video if you still have it up.
I was not expecting the $1336 level (or something in that range) in 2 years, but only in 4, and that, if I also sign up for the higher-cost program that takes half the time. That does not seem unreasonable, and it certainly did not seem to me at the time. So basically, it looks like the information was still false. Only, it was better adapted to my level of intelligence and education and to what I may believe, as I would not have believed something that was more blatantly false or questionable, such as the same amount in just a year or two.
I have also seen (on some traffic exchanges or safelists, and I’ll find you an example if I see it again) the promise that the sponsor will start paying the new member’s fees after 12 months if the new member is still not making more than that after 12 months, that is, 10 that it should take plus 2 to be on the safe side. It is for Berry Tree plus the “quick start” AB/Nutronix, and it says that the fees are about $200, which is not far from the reality, if keeping the cost of the product order (the one required for 100 CV) as low as possible. But then, how could the sponsor possibly pay, if commissions are that low? Obviously, such sponsors are lying or don’t know.
Actually, not the fees, but the difference. At least, that’s what I found now by doing a search. It says:
“I am so sure that you will be making more than $199 per month after you have been in all 3 programs (Nutronix, The Berry Tree and Automatic Builder) and on auto ship in all 3 programs (100 CV auto ship for Nutronix) for 12 months consecutively that if you are not making more than $199 per month after 12 months I will pay you whatever you are short every month after your 12th consecutive month till you are making more than $199 per month ! (EXAMPLE: say on your 13th consecutive month you only made $0. I would send you $199 via PayPal; say on your 14th consecutive month you only made $20. I would send you $179 via PayPal; say on your 15th consecutive month you only made $75. I would send you $124 via PayPal.) etc., etc., etc. . .”
I think this is the video that Nujerz was referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGMiykTNIE
- Ryan
Hello Again,
I know that some people are doing well in the Berry Tree and Nutronix. I am only telling you what the pools were projected to be and what they were. Again the Berry Tree is a great idea. We joined in May of 2007 and promoted both the Berry Tree and Nutronix. We received an email from our upline in November of 2007 that came from the Berry Tree office that showed if you were to reach Regional Director in Nutronix and had 10 personally sponsored people in the Berry Tree that the CROSS OVER bonus pools (in addition to the Berry Tree pools that you have qualified for) would pay in the area of $660.00 per month. I worked very hard and went from ex. director to Regional in 2 months. When we reached that level the pool paid less than $150.00. There has never been any explanation as why there projections were so off. My concern is that since we joined we have heard more than once about how things will be changing for the better and none of that has happened. We are still members but not actively working the program like we were. When the pools start paying more then we will most likely start promoting it again. I cannot spend several hundred dollars a month on advertising plus the autoship costs every month for what it is paying. For people that join just the Berry Tree and not promote it, the time that it would take to break even at what the pools are paying now would be 50 months. The bronze pool has not paid enough to cover the Berry Tree membership for the past 2 months even though the office sent out an email saying that the Bronze pool would ALWAYS cover the cost of the Berry Tree membership. So you would have to be in the bronze pool and the silver pool to cover your membership costs. 1 Berry Credit every 2 month would take 50 months to reach the 25 credits that it takes.
They are now saying that “very very soon there will be an announcement about some exciting changes at TBT… they will make things better for all of us there”. That may have something to do with money as well, because those who have a Senior Certificate have been advised not to redeem it yet. And that even for those who are only in the Berry Tree program without Nutronix/Automatic Builder, “it will still be very good for you at TBT now. Much better than it was going to be anyway with just the 10 BMCs”. BMCs are Berry Member Credits.
Hello Monica,
We joined the BT in May of 2007 so it has been a year. I do not know when you joined but I have heard for the past yr of different changes that will help the Berry Tree. When I joined the launch was going to be in June then moved to July. It did happened at the convention in Sept. When we enrolled we were told that a portion of the monthly dues goes towards advertising and the new members would be placed through the members trees. The advertising kept getting delayed, a partial campaign started a few months after the convention but brought in very few members. The free trial membership was announced at the convention which was going to increase membership. More people were joining but the free trial members were very hard to convert to full members so the conversion ratio is very low. Then they started selling the free trial members that the members had already paid for for $111.00 each and in lots of 3 or 5. All of these things that were changes were going to be for the good of the members. The main problem that I see is that the BT promises you success without doing anything. A member in the BT and just the BT would have to be a member for 20 months to have 10 BMC’s which is a total of $1,119.00. Last month the bronze pool paid less than $34.00. I am sure that when a member reaches their 10 BMC’s they will pay that member at least $56.00 or they will have to give back 3 times the $1,119.00. So the way I look at it after 20 months you will receive a check for at least $56.00 which by the way their is a $5.00 fee for the processing of the check. I can put $55.95 in the bank every month and after 20 months have $1,119.00 plus a little interest. Maybe not much but at least a little. With the way the pools are paying now you would have a couple of dollars and your $1,119.00 is in Virginia. I also hope you are aware if you buy the $111.00 free members they will not even be placed in your tree. If by some chance they do upgrade to full member you will get credit for a personally sponsored but never receive any matrix pay for that person. I am not sure who gets the fast start bonus but it amazed me that they would sell you a free trial member and then place that person in some other members tree. If the conversion rate of free trial members is 33% ( which is extremely high) you would be paying $333.00 for 1 personally sponsored and someone else will start getting the matrix pay. You would be their sponsor, doing the work to upgrade them and doing all the phone calls for someone you don’t even know to receive the rewards. I look forward to any changes other than what they are doing now.
First of all, under current rules, I would not accumulate the 10 BMC in 20 months but in 10, because I got the Nutronix/AB “quick start”, too. But then, my expenses are higher, too.
And they have just announced a new type of leads: guaranteed sign ups for the Berry Tree. Since they say that they are as effective as the leads for Company Enrolled Members (that were not placed in our trees), I assume these will be put in our trees (they did not specifically say so). And there is a special offer until May 10: we get 5 sign ups per package instead of 4.
But then, Nutronix will announce soon some changes to make it better and it is recommended we listen to this Saturday’s call.
Yeah Monica you can reach the Bronze pool in 10 months with complementing autoships in bt and ab…but it’ll cost you a little over $1600 to earn the measly $35 or so. In order to break even in this thing, you need to dish out about $160 a month for 25 months. $4000!!! And at the current rate you earn around $70 from bronze and silver combined. So pump out 4 grand for $14 profit per month!? Sorry to ruin the party, boys and girls, but unless things drastically change for this company (and I highly doubt they will) – this is a laughable ‘investment’ , as you people put it. I can play the part of an average American and irresponsibly throw my money at a basic diversified mutual fund portfolio and come away with hundreds more in that time. This is no longer a ‘wise investment’ as so many have called it in the past. More people are dropping out than joining each month, the only visible promotions available are designed to suck several hundreds of dollars from current members to pay for second-rate leads that don’t even contribute toward your tree residual income, and your OH so esteemed leaders are scrambling around looking for ways to redesign the payment plan and bonuses every month because their poor strategy continues to crumble.
On the brighter side of the hill, it seems many people in the bt such as Richard {previous comments above} are finally starting to identify this pyrite for what it’s worth. Neither do I find it even slightly coincidental that he’s beginning to express his concern for bt problems and hype that I addressed and complained about weeks earlier.
People are starting to see the truth! BerryTree BEWARE!
But they are going to make some changes very soon, and it is recommended we listen to Saturday’s call. I’m really curious what the changes are, though.
Some leads actually are placed in our trees. I think the new sign ups for the Berry Tree (not to be confused with those for Automatic Builder) must be, because they said that they are “as effective as the company-enrolled members”, which are not placed in the tree. I’m not sure this is so, as the Berry Tree sign ups are new. I actually bought 2 packages of 5. There are 4 in a package, but there is a special offer to get 5 now.
Also, people who were part of the guaranteed tour takers for Automatic Builder and signed up are considered personally-sponsored even though they, too, come from leads. They sign up for Nutronix/Automatic Builder, but some may agree to sign up for the Berry Tree, too.
Nutronix was in business for a long time, so I really hope their new plans will work out better, and can’t wait to find out what they are. Also, the products are healthy and I have seen tangible results, such as no longer getting depressed when I have PMS. It’s just that I’m still waiting for better results in terms of business. Which people in my upline are saying that will get better once the new plan comes into effect.
I also think that those who are dropping out are just contributing to the problem. If they were still in our programs, maybe the situation, including our commissions, would have been better, don’t you think? To stay in business, one needs to be able and willing to invest even if, in the short run, that means losing money. But many people are just looking at the short-term.
Give it a chance, folks, and try to listen in this Saturday, when changes will be announced!
Hello Again,
I understand that you are on an autoship of 100cv and a member of AB so that brings you total monthly cost to around $200.00 so if you get one BMC every month then it will be 10 months before you hit the Bronze pool, at $200.00 a month that is $2,000.00 total. I also know that depending on your downline you will be making money from Nutronix. Again I have no idea how long you have been a member but this is what the pools have been paying. The Oct bronze pool paid $20.64, now keep in mind until Jan of 2008 people that were in Nutronix and had reached Regional Director or higher were getting paid for the pools. Starting in Jan of 2008 they had to qualify like everyone else. Because of this the pools were supposed to increase as less people would be qualified and more members would have joined. I was told at the convention that the Bronze pool would be at $120.00 to $150.00 in Jan of 2008. As I stated earlier Oct bronze pool $20.64. Nov Bronze pool $67.07 and Dec Bronze pool was $92.91, just as predicted the pools were increasing and we were very excited based on the predictions. The Jan bronze pool was $61.27 and the silver was $46.81 but the biggest disappointment was the cross over bonus pool projected to be $660.00 paid $142.89.I asked why the bronze pool paid more than the silver and the reply was that the bronze pool will always pay more than the cost of the membership into the BT. Feb the bronze pool was $47.65 and the silver pool was $38.25, I asked what happened to the bronze pool always paying more than the cost of the membership. I have yet to receive an answer. The March pools paid $34.60 and the silver paid $34.99. I guess in a few more weeks we will see if the pools go up. The point that I am making is it doesn’t make any difference how fast you reach the pools the pay off is far from what is being told and advertised. We joined in May and reached the bronze in Oct. It still only paid $20.00. We sponsored 60 or 70 people into the BT and went from ex. director with 300 cvs after Thanksgiving to Regional director by Jan 31st with 2750 cvs. It is very hard to keep people in the BT. Now that the advertising has picked up we are hoping that things improve. We could not keep spending the money that we spending to market the business and the company not doing their part. If the advertising gets better and we start getting spillover from above then we will again start marketing the business. One more thing that you are probably not aware of. The company puts people in your tree based on the highest position in your tree that is open, but not necessary from left to right. If for example you have your top branch full anyone that is on your top branch and is actively working the program and is sponsoring people will never get any spillover from you. The new members are placed on your second branch according to how many members are in each branch, so in essence if you promote the program you will not receive any spillover from you sponsor. How fair is that?
Hi,
We stayed in for a year, spent over $200.00 a month on Nutronix and the Berry Tree plus around $400.00 a month in advertising. I went to the convention. I listened to the upline and all of the changes that were going to improve the pay outs. I listened to the calls 2 and 3 times a week, I did everything that my upline recommended. I managed a powerleg. What I never did was buy GTTs, guaranteed sign-ups or free trial members for the BT. There are much better ways to advertise. If you had a company and I worked as hard for you as I did for Nutronix you would be giving me raises not demotions. If you are really interested in a program that makes money give me a way to contact you and I will tell you about it. You make money while you are fishing, bowling, cooking, watching TV, cutting your grass, on vacation, or hanging from your ceiling. You never have to sponsor anyone or send any emails. You do not have uplines, downlines, or clotheslines. And I am not feeding you a line. No more MLM, no more feeding your downline and new recruits a line of bull. The 4 hours a day I was sending out leads every morning I now sleep in or watch the news. Good luck with the BT I think you will find out that what you are going to hear is the same as a politician promising change in Washington, It ain’t going to happen. Only 3 to 5 percent of the people in MLM ever do really well, the problem is that they are already at the top of your upline promising you new and different ways to spend your money and you will reach the top.
One last thing I do not believe that the BT is a scam, what I do believe it is a very good idea that has not delivered what it promised. It may still do so, I do not know. I’m not sure why it didn’t, but I do know you can’t tell people things and not deliver and then expect them to keep shelling out money month after month. As for rewarding you for loyalty, not sure about that, If you give me $55.95 a month for 20 months I will be more that happy to send you $34.00 on the 21st month but you still have to keep sending me the $55.95 every month. Please keep in mind that most of the people that join the BT are joining so that they do not have to do anything. They are expecting a return on their money and that is exactly what is advertised. There is a chart that you can see that shows that after 2 yrs your return will be more than what you can make on any of 3 different investments. They have a triple your money back guarantee if you are not making more money after 20 months than you are putting out. That simply says that after 20 months you will be in the bronze pool because you have 10 BMC’s and you will be paid more than $55.95 per month after that. It does not say that you will have recovered your investment of over $1100.00. So if you get 10 BMC’s you will be guaranteed at least $55.96 a month after you have reached the bronze pool which is more than your monthly investment.
Richard, and whoever else was actually recruiting, how did you manage to do that? I have trouble finding people, and they tend to drop out (or never sign up as full, paying members).
Don’t worry: if the company really has a better plan to suggest this Saturday or some time soon (not that you will necessarily trust their promises), I’ll let you know. At least, the company existed for a while, so it is stable in that respect. And honest. And with good products.
I also like the way they would create excitement about new things, and curiosity about their new, great surprises. I can’t wait to see what else they’ll say and do next.
They are good marketers and know how to sound convincing, so they may be able to make this work after all. I keep paying them and working for nothing, and I still have the feeling that this is a good idea and good things are coming. I think that, since I don’t believe in God, this fulfills (at great expense) my need to belong to a cult-like organization, but without all that God stuff. I actually felt guilty for questioning what they are doing, if you can imagine.
Actually, did you drop out, or is it just that you are not advertising? Because if you are still in the program, you too will know what the changes are without asking me. But you may want to buy some Berry Tree sign ups before the special offer is over.
Hi,
No we did not drop out of the BT. But like you said members tend to drop out or if they sign up as a free trail member they are very hard to get to upgrade. I would never buy Berry tree sign-ups as that is a total waste of money. Even if you get 5 for the price of 4 and you bought 2 sets. You will have 10 free trial members and you will be very lucky to get 2 of them to upgrade. If you did get 2 to upgrade the cost is over $800 for 2 members that go in someone else’s tree. The only people that are making money there are Rob and Art. I did my own email marketing at a cost of $300 to $400 a month. I actually had 11 people enroll in one week. 7 full members and 4 free trial members. That was the week before Thanksgiving. I never had another week like that one. But from Dec 1st until Jan 31st we had enrolled about 16 to 18 people into Nutronix as Jr or Ex directors plus 2 Seniors. You need an autoresponder that you can load leads into and send out and a decent lead source. It takes time and you will be on the phone a lot. You need to know the pay pay up and down, most people that enroll don’t care about the products, they enroll to make money. If the company projects that the pools are going to pay for instance $120.00 for the bronze and you use that as a recruiting tool, then when it doesn’t pay that much you start losing people. The company must honor what they say or you are defeated. Also in the BT when people enroll and get a package with a few bags of salted sand they are not impressed. I found that it was better to promote Nutronix as when people join Nutronix they understand that it is a business and will have to advertise. GTT’s are hit or miss but mostly miss. The guaranteed sign-ups are people that are phone solicited and for the most part have never seen the website. They get some nice B-12 vitamins for $2.95 which is a very good deal but as soon as they find out the cost is going up its see ya later. If you have a good team leader who is building powerlegs you do have a chance for success, but if you are on your own you are destined to fail. There are about 155,000 people that are looking for online businesses every day. 99.9% think that if they enroll today that because it is on the internet they will be rich tomorrow. That makes it real hard to keep the people. If you market only the BT and your new recruits do not see some action within a month or 2 they are gone. Nutronix needs to restructure the pay plan so that when new members come in that they can realistically be making from $500.00 to $1,000.00 a month with in the 1st 6 months if they are active in the program. I seriously doubt if in the BT you will be at $1,000 a month in 5 yrs by being passive. Whatever the news is that is coming out today I will be very reluctant to jump on it. It will most likely help the company more than you. I will wait several months and see.
Two packages of Berry Tree sign ups did not cost me 800 dollars but only $656.00 USD. I have just checked my PayPal statement to give you the right amount. In Canadian dollars, it cost me $683.33.
I’m surprised Nutronix works better than the Berry Tree. Not that either worked particularly well in my case. I thought that the opportunity to get bonus pool commissions for sure after a certain time was more interesting than the opportunity to try to sell a lot if you want to make it worth the trouble. It was through the Berry Tree that I signed up, thinking that bonus pool levels were going to be higher. I would not have joined Nutronix otherwise.
I used the over $800 because they were $111.00 each unless they were on sale. Regardless of the cost you will see after they have been around for 1 or 2 months how many are left. With $683 you could have had several thousand high quality leads sent to your BT and Nutronix sites every day for close to 2 months. You would have 4 to 6 tour takers every day at your AB site and probably several BT sign-ups every week. The problem with internet marketing is that it is more than a full time job. You have to put in a lot of time on the phone and your downline expects you to never be anywhere except right next to your phone waiting for them to call. It may be easier to get people in The BT but they quit faster. When someone joins Nutronix they understand that it is a business and the BT is another means of making money, so I found as people joined Nutronix and seen the other streams of income that could be produced by being a member of the Berry Tree they would join it. That way you may not get as many people but you would get a higher quality person. They understand that you are building a business and it will take a little time. If the company would have not mislead everyone with the promise of pool pay outs I would still be working the business. The numbers that I quoted were from the head people at the Berry Tree and not made up by the upline. I was expecting to hear the new battle plan from you.
The “battle plan” is still somewhat vague, because they are not telling us all the details, but more will come within the next few days. For instance, they are changing the matrix structure, increasing the bonus pool commissions from one dollar per person to five dollars, and reducing the time it takes to qualify (I remember they said gold will be 40 BMC instead of 50). And they will add an Automatic Builder site for the Berry Tree, too, which is provided with the free trial but they will charge for afterwards.
You can listen to a recording of Saturday’s call where they said things like that.
Actually from what I heard earlier, the Bronze Pool has already been accumulating $2 per person. I don’t believe it’s been documented on the official payplan webpage, but they mentioned something about that on a conference call several weeks ago. The reason that $2/person is still as low as $34 has to do with all the new passive approach members who have stuck with bt since the beginning and are finally earning the 10 credits. Which of course is a simple inverse relationship. The more bronze qualifiers the lower the shares.
But this $5 / person should shape things up again. Just doing a simple guess-timate, if $2 / person yielded $34, $5 / person should yield about $85 under the same conditions which most likely be a little lower, since we will see a new load of qualifiers again this month. Most likely anyway. No its not $150 as they hoped it would be, but $70 – 80 still covers the autoship with a little profit wrapped on the side
But at 70-80 dollars there is no profit for those who are not only in the Berry Tree, but also in Nutronix/Automatic Builder. It won’t even cover half the monthly expenses. And when the profit is small, don’t forget that it is further reduced by the transaction fees for the payment. It is reduced in any case, but it matters more when there isn’t much to begin with.
I’m curious what will actually happen, because there is more to this and we don’t know the actual figures. Especially since if the plan is more attractive, recruiting and keeping people in the program may become easier. Which will improve commissions, too, in the long run.
I can’t wait to find out the details!
Hey Monica-
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying I’d necessarily be satisfied with $70 for the bronze pool especially when the big boys made references to shares in the $100 – 150 range.
However, this $70 – 80 will be a drastic improvement from the $30 range we’ve recently slumped to. Most importantly I think that will alleviate some of the stress experienced by current members and motivate others to continue building. And as you stated “recruiting will become easier” as a result.
And you’re right. This amount only covers half if you’r on the 2x plan with bt and exec ab autoship. Part of the reason I won’t have a pretty smile until I see shares in the 100 range.
Hello Again,
Where will the $5.00 come from? Will it be taken from the fast start bonus or from the Matrix plan. Is the entire $5 going to the bronze pool or be spread out in all the pools? Also making the pools easier to qualify for as Monica said lowering the Gold from 50 to 40 only makes for smaller pool pay outs as more people qualify for them. My problem was not reaching the pools but getting paid the pocket change that they are paying. And you had stated earlier that the reason the pools are low is because people are quiting and they are causing the problem. The reason the people are quitting is because they are not making any money. I would guess that less than 5% of the people in any net working marketing business are in it for the products. All of the products with exception to the silver solution that I am aware of can be bought anywhere and for a lot less. The company made a huge mistake by projecting large bonus pool pay outs and being so far off and then NEVER explaining why. They can not expect people to enroll and not make what they were told they would be making and then stick around for another year while they try and fix things. I was told at the convention by the head man of the BT that starting in Jan of 08 that the bronze pool would be between $120.00 and $150.00 and that the bronze, silver, and gold pools combined would be between $2100.00 and $2300.00 , I think that the highest that has been paid for the 3 pools was less than $500.00 since Jan of 08. I guess we will see what happens and I guess the AB for the BT will be an additional charge for all members. Is it a requirement to be a member of the BT
Look, I may have misunderstood or forgotten some of the things they said at the conference call, but you can always listen to the recording of that call. But then, there wasn’t that much, as they are expecting to make announcements within the next few days (they said something about Thursday).
Many products, such as the sublingual pills and the Berry Tree product, are not available in stores. But then, if you do find anything similar, whatever you spend in a regular store does not give you any financial rewards or qualify you for any financial benefits or participation in any business. At least, with Nutronix, there may be something, or the chance to get something better later.
I was wondering about the new Automatic Builder site. I have the blue one for Nutronix but I’m in the Berry Tree, too. They did not say what will happen in that case. Will I be required to pay the monthly fees for two Automatic Builder sites? They didn’t say.
They did say that those who sign up for the Berry Tree free trial will get their Automatic Builder site, which they will have to pay for afterwards if they want to keep it. That’s actually a good idea, because it introduces them to the site and the business. But nobody said that there will or there will not be two sites and twice the fees for those who currently have the blue, Nutronix Automatic Builder site that exists now.
Hello Monica,
You have made my point, people join businesses to make money not for the product or products. When the company tells you that you will be paid X amount of dollars when you reach a certain level and you work hard, bye advertisements, and spend long hours calling people and promoting the business. Then you reach those levels and the pay is about 20% of what you were told, would you be happy. I have kids that have developed a real nasty habit called eating. It is more important for me to feed and care for my kids than to keep sending money to Mechanicsville Va. so that the leaders of the company can have a great lifestyle while they are fixing things. I want them to spend there money to fix things, not mine. It wasn’t me that broke the system. I told you I worked this business very hard and was only4 BMC’s and personally sponsored away fro the gold pool. I reached regional director in Nutronix 2 months after I took the job as team leader. When I stepped down as team leader the whole team fell apart. We only have about 15 or 16 of the BT members left and I have no idea who is still in Nutronix. When I spend 12 to 14 hours a day working and following all the advice of the upline and I send in a BNA support ticket I want to hear more than “We’re Sorry”. I don’t know if you are aware of this or not but you can bye 5 lbs bags of sea salt for $20.00. You would have to save all of your little pouches for 20 yrs to get that much, but you would have to put it in your own little tea bags. Its all about the money, not the products. I joined the business to make money not sell vitamins. When they fix the system I will promote it again, but I cannot bring people in to this business and ask them to pay $55.95 a month in hopes that the office gets things corrected. Nobody wants to hear that it will take 20 months to start making $60.00 a month meaning a $5.00 profit per month on a $1100.00 investment.
I have read a lot of these responses over and over again and can see both sides of this. One thing that is very clear is that The Berry Tree promises your success no ifs, ands, or buts. A direct quote is below,
“There are no sponsoring requirements or quotas to meet, just stay with us and your success in reaching these Pools is guaranteed! Every two months you are a member in good standing you will accumulate Berry Member Credits, (BMC’s). By accumulating more and more BMC’s you will move through our compensation plan and earn more and more money.”
You can also go to the Berry Tree Chart and see a projection of 4 different investments and how the BT far surpasses the other 3. It leads you to believe that you will be making $1336.00 in 2 years and how the other 3 will take 8, 26. and even 66 years to reach the level that your $50.00 per month investment in the Berry Tree will bring you. Keep in mind that it says $50.00 per month for the BT, not $50.00 plus advertising expenses because your advertising is already covered in your investment and the BT will bring members in and place them in your tree and other members trees. I never believed that I would get 584 people from the company in 2 yrs but I did expect maybe 1 or 2 a month as each person joins they are in 3 different trees, and some from spillover from the people above me. Another thing that is not told to you is that if you actively promote the Berry Tree your chances of receiving spillover is greatly diminished. So in effect you are punished for working the program.
The BT offers a triple your money back guarantee, what a great selling point. Join the BT if in fact you are not making more money after you reach 10 BMC’s than it is costing you to be a member of the Berry Tree then you will receive 3 times your money back. I will be honest with you I am not sure if this means the Berry Tree cost or the Berry Tree + the o2 berry product. I would guess it is only the $50.00 BT cost. At any rate the guarantee is given because the bronze pool was projected to pay over $100.00 per month and that would surely cover the BT membership. I know as well as many members of the BT that this does not include reaching the Bronze pool if you have personally sponsored as the bronze pool last month was a measly $34.00 and change. I would also think that this is the reason why they are adding $5.00 to the pools as a lot of people are reaching their 10 BMC’s. as being members of Nutronix, the BT and AB.
Now on the brighter side; if in fact the BT can enhance its program and get the pools to where they were projected to be it is a very good investment. I doubt very seriously that anyone that joins the BT will get a full tree in 2 yrs but will get some people. (I am only talking about people that join and do not work the program, if you work the program anything is possible) A member of the BT and only the BT could join in the free trial and then upgrade within the 7 days, get their bonus berry member credit and reach the bronze pool in 18 months. The cost of his membership would be around $900. Assuming the company corrects the pools and does get the bronze to where it is $100 plus per month the member would start receiving a check for around $50.00 a month and not be paying any more membership plus any members that he or she received from spillover or company placement would add to that amount. I would think that doubling your money in 18 months is not bad. I understand that you really have not doubled your entire investment but you will and your income would grow as you get more spillover and company placements. You would reach the silver pool after a while and then be receiving even more depending on if the company can correct the current situation they have created.
Not you, the company, Ronnie above, Ryan above, myself or anyone can expect people to join the BT and commit to 2 yrs to receive $34.00 a month and have to stay for 3 more yrs to reach the silver pool to barely break even. The bronze pool has to be in the $100 plus range to make it even slightly attractive. The company is the only ones that can correct that.
How exactly are people being punished if they are promoting the business? How does the company know who’s promoting and who’s not, and if they are still promoting if they did it in the past? Except, of course, if and when advertising is bought through Automatic Builder.
Hello Monica,
I will try and explain this to you as best I can. If you join the BT and you are placed on your sponsors top branch lets say on the 3rd leg. Then you get 3 people to join under you in the next month or so. (Remember 2 things 1st spillover and company sponsored are 2 separate things, and 2nd, spillover comes from people above you that are sponsoring people.) At this point your sponsor needs 5 more people to fill there top branch, then he or she would start putting people on the second branch. The 1st person that goes on the second branch would go to the 1st leg and the next on the second and so on. Here comes the catch. When the 1st and 2nd legs receive their spillover and it is your turn to receive a spillover you would be passed by because you have already sponsored 3 people on your own. You will not receive any spillover until everyone on the top branch has 3 people and legs 1 and 2 has 4 people., at that point you would receive the next person providing you do not sponsor anyone else. Thus because you were active and promoted the program your chances of receiving spillover are diminished.
We joined in May of 2007 as I said before. What got me very interested in working this program was that we received a spillover a few weeks later, so I started promoting the business. We enrolled 1 person in June and 3 in July and I think 1 or 2 more in Aug. We actually were 1 short of the bronze pool when we were at the convention and enrolled that person during the convention. The spillover that we received in May has been the only person that we have ever received from spillover and the reason why is because we were very active and worked the program.
The reason that I feel the way I do is #1, I feel that the company made projections as to what the pools would pay and they were off by tremendous amount. #2, they never gave any explanations as to why they were so far off. And #3 when I asked what happened I was told “We’re Sorry” and then treated badly for asking questions.
I have always thought and will continue to think that everyone deserves some explanation as to why the predictions were so far off. I spent a lot of money and time promoting the business and was expecting to be rewarded for it. I know that you keep defending the company and that is fine. I am not asking you are anyone to quit the BT or Nutronix as a matter of fact I have said several times that the BT is a great idea but it has problems and I am not going to spend anymore money promoting the program until the problems are fixed. It’s not hard getting members in the BT, the problem comes when the new members find out it will be a yr before they get some one in their tree from the company advertising and that the pools will be paying only $34 they will not stay. The biggest problem that I have is that I have morals and I can not and will not ask people to enroll in the BT until I can assure them that they will able to make money.
Let me tell you that I had international directors, 1 star and 2 star directors calling me and asking what I was doing to bring so many people into the program, I was doing what I was taught by the upline but it was my compassion for the program that people could feel because I believed that what I was told by office was true. Not one thing in any of these posting are exaggerated or untrue and when the program is corrected I will do it again if it is corrected within a reasonable amount of time.
Monica,
As far as the company knowing who is promoting it is quit simple, you will have personally sponsored people if you are promoting the business. They are not sitting there looking to pass you by, it is just the way the program places people. They place members so to try and keep trees as even as possible. So if you are enrolling people then you do not receive spillover.
Not sure how the company sponsored people are placed it took me a yr to get one
This month, they gave me two CEM. I have just checked, and that really happened AFTER I got a personally sponsored member a few days earlier. But since I’m not recruiting much, do you mean that I would have been better off not even trying, because the company would have given me just as much, but without the trouble and expense? That’s not fair. I would understand if those who recruit a lot got less help. But not those who are trying and are not doing very well. That way, whoever can get some results, but not much, is better off not trying. At least, until they become better at recruiting and get better results. That’s not too encouraging.
I am beginning to look like a chump. I joined BT for the express purpose of succeeding at an MLM given my level of recruiting incompetence. I have no great love for nutrition companies in MLM. I have tried them all or most. I do love the silver however, a real break through product. But, I can only have so many bottles of it in my garage before it nudges out my Honda O… The BT is costing 58/month..the Nutronix is at least 130/month the AB is another 19.00. This is alot of dough for a program that cannot payout from Bronze enough to cover the BT product. I can do nothing and get nothing in hundreds of other companies. Nutronix BT was supposedly different. I gave up on the Nutronix part when I found it was binary. I could not make a binary work if my life depended on it. I was doing well with one leg working with my team, but then to make money you have to recruit another leg all by yourself and that my friends is above my paygrade. I will wait for the new announcements to see if I can ever see the light of day. The BT sale was of course directed at us non-recruiter types and was supposedly “tested” over the years to see what would work for a non-recruiter.
Hello Monica,
When you actively sponsor people you do get a fast start bonus and a personally sponsored person so it is to your advantage to recruit people. If I had my choice I would take a personally sponsored person over a spillover or company placement every time. When or if the bonus pools get worked out you will want to reach them as fast as you can and personally sponsored is the fastest way to them. But you should still receive a fair share of spillover which you will not when you promote the business. I guess the only good way to look at it is that when people receive spillover it will make them more inclined to stay in the program. So the people that joined as a passive program will be glad to get the spillover.
But the fast-start bonus is not worth having if the cost of the advertising is higher than the bonus. Having the people in my downline afterwards would be worth something if they did not drop out or fail to upgrade to full (paid) membership.
You are correct. The company has to get the bonus pools corrected, and I feel that is their job so that people like and I can enroll people in the company and make money. So can the people that we enroll. They will stay if they can earn a nd income.
Well said, Richard, on all your explanations and arguments. I’ll admit they were a tad on the lengthy side, but still worth reading, no doubt. There were several reasons I quit this joke of a program, but perhaps the main reason is the exact same surface you began to scratch yourself.
I want everyone reading this to take a deep breath and imagine for a few minutes they live in a world where it’s slightly possible the founders and kingpins of automaticbuilder are (1) not perfect (2) refuse to admit error (3) are making more than meets the eye straight from our pocketbooks.
Are you still with me? Good…….
Let’s start with Ab. $9.95 per month per person. Ab has been around a lot longer than bt so it’s likely their member count is double, if not triple or higher. Let’s take double to keep the numbers simple, which is supposedly around 26,000.
We need to assume ab has some monthly expenses to, such as website hosting, website and legal protection, support, oh I’ll just be generous and let’s just say $50,000 or so. Know how much do Art and Rob Phelps make out of those 26,000 ab people even with a recurring $50,000?
Still over $200,000 per month!!!
That’s right, 4 times more than nutronix pays them monthly for their organization. So, with these numbers alone, the Phelps earn around 75-80% of their income from the system, and less than 20% from the actual opportunity itself. And I’m not even including the Horizon Marketing income into the mix. A while ago, someone posted a WHOIS search matching legal owner Art Phelps to the Horizon Marketing group. So every bad pack of GTTs or half-benefit berry tree signups you buy only fills their pockets wider and wider. I would n’t be the slightest bit surprised if those two grab a million every 3 months when everything is added up.
Okay, and in case you are thinking there’s no problem with founders cashing in on the system, let’s remember something else. The bt is in turmoil! We have people at the top earning $100,000s a month, and the corp advertising still has nothing to show for the ‘tedious hours put into research and development for a prosperous campaign?’ And then when the big guns actually release something, they have to ‘cash-in’ once again and drag out over $100 per ‘amazing lead’ (which is another load of crock) sold to us members. What’s wrong, kingpins? A quarter million a month isn’t good enough? You need to be making a coo’ million every single damn month before you release a somewhat respectable, honest campaign to actually help your people out?
Well that’s enough for now I think. Rich scratched the surface. I figured we could drill a little deeper now that other posters are finally starting to unravel the truth bit by bit. See you again soon!
Hello again,
If you think that these are long you ought to talk to me. At any rate I will not complain about Art and Rob Phelps or anyone else making money, as long as the program that they are offering allows me to make money as promised. If it needs fixed I expect them to fix it with there money not mine. Since I have quit promoting the BT and Nutronix I have found a different way to make money. As I posted in an above number 39 If you are really interested in a program that makes money give me a way to contact you and I will tell you about it. You make money while you are fishing, bowling, cooking, watching TV, cutting your grass, on vacation, or hanging from your ceiling. You never have to sponsor anyone or send any emails. You do not have uplines, downlines, or clotheslines. And I am not feeding you a line. No more MLM, no more feeding your downline and new recruits a line of bull. No conference calls, as a matter of fact all you do is make money. I joined in Feb have not sponsored anyone and I am making over $3,000.00 a month. Right now I am making $104.31 a day and that will go up 3 more times this month. No internet surfing. All I need is a way to contact you. After you join this program you won’t care about pine trees, apple trees, coconut trees or any trees. If you need vitamins you can go to the store and bye some.
I would be interested, but very reluctant, because that’s what everybody says to sell programs and then they don’t necessarily work, and I lost enough money. I trusted Nutronix and the Berry Tree so much! I will, in fact, remain in their programs.
You can email me at vartotrad [at sign] gmail dot com.
Oh, goodness I fear I may have been completely wrong all along. Richard please tell me you haven’t been voicing your opinion and throughly explaining your experiences just for the sole purpose of drawing others to your, oh how’d you put it again? ‘program that makes money’?
Now I can appreciate the excitement you may be feeling if you really have earned that kind of money. Yippey, congrats to you and all but the bottom line is that everyone out there either attaches too much hype or truly believes that their promoted program truly is the best in the world, whether it really is or not. And from where I’m sitting, reading what you have described so far it sounds exactly like some high yield program or another similar garbage gambling program which will most likely die and leave others with dry pockets sooner or later. I used to love playing those games too but i certainly could never recommend something of that nature to someone looking to build an honest business online. Completely different fields, the two.
Anyway the whole deal kinda ruined the discussion mood of our little dinner table. Based on your story and previous words I want to lean towards the shiny end of the coin with you, Rich. But I still consider what you did spam and nonetheless I hope admin deals with it as he has in the past.
Cheers.
On the discussion side:
[QUOTE by Richard:
"At any rate I will not complain about Art and Rob Phelps or anyone else making money, as long as the program that they are offering allows me to make money as promised."]
That’s EXACTLY the main reason I quit the bt. Their program is more hype than nuts and bolts necessary to build a respectable income on the internet. And what of their updates and ‘improvements’? What of the corp advertising? It was turned into nothing more than a new cash-cow for those two boys to sell more poor quality leads with only half the benefits of a normal recruited member. And I shouldn’t have to remind you that the bt bonuses promised have turned completely sour. So people are unloading more and more cash into the Phelps’ pocket. Their bank gets fatter while the poor faithful bt members continue to ‘invest’ in a failing venture.
So what am I saying in summary of all this? The Phelps and other big boys are making plenty of money, and not only failing to improve the system, they are too busy creating additional system to benefit themselves at their members’ expense. Absolutely pathetic, unethical, and irresponsible on so many levels that it’s a wonder no one else seems to be catching on and admitting the suspicions tied to the disappointments.
I was looking for info on the berrytree and BOY am I glad I found this place. It took me nearly an hour to read through all this lololol. And in all that, looks like I need to wait until more updates. I was a little disapointed but not all that surprised to find out what I did.
thanks for the words of wisdom all!! I will be sure to throw you in my bookmark list
Quote Red Honor
“Oh, goodness I fear I may have been completely wrong all along. Richard please tell me you haven’t been voicing your opinion and throughly explaining your experiences just for the sole purpose of drawing others to your, oh how’d you put it again? ‘program that makes money’?”
Well my friend I was not voicing my opinion and explaining my experiences to draw any one anywhere. It makes no difference to me one way or the other about another program. The opinions that I stated about the BT are exactly how I feel. Not quite as brutal as you but still very disillusioned about the BT and Nutronix.
It never has ever bothered me when other people make money. As long as they are not cheating me or other people, I think that everyone has the same opportunity. I would never tell you or anyone else that I would pay you something and then not do it.
I understand your feelings about Nutronix and the BT but do not know why you are so bitter about anyone that makes a buck. Good luck to you also
Rich,
After all that, I can’t believe you completely missed my point.
‘bitter about anyone that makes a buck’? Where did that come from? Did you even care to read my entire post, or just stop at the end of that quote?
I specifically said congrats to you and moreover I’m genuinely happy to hear that someone else like me who was duped by the bt found an alternative way to earn money. I’m also glad you love this new miracle program you’ve found. But once again that isn’t the point.
This place exists to share information and discuss the topics at hand and not so everyone can attempt to convince other people to join alternative programs. Bringing up other programs and asking others to contact you is considered blog spam in case you didn’t know. You’d be wise to be a tad more careful in the future.
And like I said earlier I want to give you the benefit of the doubt b/c you’re one of my favorites on this little board. But man! When I question your motives and suggest that your program sounds like some funky internet ponzi and in return, you reply with these obtuse statements about ‘bitterness toward successful people’, it looks like i hit a never and furthermore makes it appear as if you have a shady agenda. Don’t mean to push any cat scratches, guess I just have high expectations for my favorites.
I just want to see a spam free discussion panel and continue as we had been doing. and i want to make sure a top notch guy like you and everyone else understands the difference.
NOTE: This post has been edited by request of the original poster – 05/13/2008, 2:03 A.M.
Yo Teresa! Bookmarking this little cyberspace was a good choice as i’m sure we’ll see many interesting excuses*…AHEM* I mean ‘changes’ in the program very soon according to the big boys at bt and ab. I just have to wonder if the admins will change the tone of their posts as the changes approach. I noticed ryan (bti) doesn’t post the bonus results with the same enthusiasm anymore. Hmm wonder why?? Could it be that they are beginning to suspect the same truths that we’ve pointed out? Could it be that this little Phelps roman empire is starting to shake? No worries people I won’t be hasty. i’ll save my TIMBER call for the necessary place and time.
Wrapping things up just wanted to say welcome to our little blog community Teresa. Things are starting to heat up around here!
RedHonor,
I noticed you included me in your last post. Lucky me, eh?
Well, before I get into all that, I must say that I’m quite confused about your last post to Richard. You said:
And he answered you with his first statement:
Did you not consider that an “adequate answer”? If so, you’d be wise to explain exactly what you expect to hear, because it’s certainly not fair to say he didn’t answer the question. That’s a perfectly acceptable and sensible statement to me.
- Ryan
*** DOAH!!! ***
I must have started reading a little bit past Richs’ quote b/c i don’t remember seeing that. I guess i’ll have to take the demerit on this one lol. Sorry everyone!
Okay hmm well that does change a few things regarding my intended posts. The main point I wanted to stress was the anti-spam rule you’ve been trying to enforce as you will see for yourself. Could I edit my post by any chance ryan?
RedHonor,
I suppose, given the circumstances, I can allow you to edit this post if you really feel the need to do so. But, please don’t make this habitual. Go ahead and e-mail me the edited version of what you’d like changed at: RyzAutomatic@yahoo.com
Also, concerning Richard and the “Anti-spam rule,” let me take care of that. I know you mean well, but your “concern” is coming off a little too aggressive. We’ve had some fantastic discussion and debate transpire here, and I don’t want to risk an unnecessary war breaking out in this section. Thanks.
- Ryan
Good Morning,
The very 1st thing that I would like to say is that it was never my intention when I came to this site to promote another site and I would like the administration to edit my remarks in in post number 63 and 39 and remove any language that refers to any other business.
I am not interested in promoting a battle with Red Honor on this site and I will agree that I was wrong in mentioning the other business that I am currently involved with as it does take away from the purpose of this room and I did not take that into consideration when replying to other posts. I am sorry for that.
Hello Teresa,
Welcome to our little chatting place. I would advise that you wait to join the BT. It seems they are in the process of making some changes to try and save the program. As a member of the BT I hope it works. I do have great concern as nothing they have done to date has worked. If anyone asks me about the BT I tell them exactly what has happened to me and advise against enrolling at this time. One major change that they made in Sept of 07 was introducing the free trial into the BT. I feel it was a great idea for Nutronix because when people are looking at Nutronix they understand it is a business and it gives them 30 days to look it over and your chances of getting to to upgrade is much better than the chances of new enrollee’s in the BT of upgrading. When people join the BT on the free trial you can upgrade and get a bonus BMC but most people that join the BT are joining because it promotes making an income without any work what so ever. So when a member joins, be it through the free trial or as a full member when they do not see anything happening within 1 or 2 months they drop out. No since in throwing good money after bad money. I would check back from time to time and see if the pools are making any headway before enrolling.
There is a fine line between true blog spamming and finding a way to take the conversation offline, or to a more appropriate forum. And that, when there is a valid reason to believe that people will appreciate the information, and when there is no other way to contact them (private messaging, email that is made publicly available, etc.). Richard did not even tell us what the program is and by no means is he someone who just came here for the purpose of marketing it. If doing it very, very discreetly the way he did it, this is actually a good way to market a program. Only, it takes time and effort (unless it is simply done by chance), because it really has to be done at the right time. I have actually appreciated the information.
Now, regarding the free trials, there is an actual cost (low) for shipping the product. It’s not that it is a serious problem for people who sign up, since it’s not much, and if they can’t even afford that, they will not be able to afford the program fees after they upgrade. But because of those few dollars, some advertising, such as guaranteed sign ups from sources other than those provided through Automatic Builder, is not possible, because it takes something 100% free. Not that it would necessarily have worked very well, as people recruited through guaranteed sign ups are often there just for some small payment that they get to sign up. But it’s nice to know.
Another reason some places won’t accept advertising for Automatic Builder and the Berry Tree is that they have sound. Not that it is a serious problem, as there are plenty of other places to spend money at.
One reason I’m disappointed is that I used to feel that the Berry Tree could be the solution to poverty, at least for those who could afford to pay the monthly fees. And that they should even sacrifice, financially, if they find it hard. Because it was such a great program that the Man may ban it, if it became so popular that too many people got out of poverty and no longer needed jobs. And that it is sad that some people won’t even give it a chance and may even say that attempts to let them know about it are spam.
Deep inside (I would not say that to them), I felt sad for those who did not have the patience to actually have a look at how it works and try it. And that it is too bad that spam for other things ruined opportunities to market this truly wonderful program, and made people mistrustful and reluctant. And that any money and effort I invest in this is helping me build a better future and free myself of the economic system. That I was creating some kind of pension for myself.
That’s why I feel so disappointed and tend to cling to the hope that things will get better. I used to feel that those who reject this opportunity or won’t look at it even after being told about it are losers, and conditioned by the system not to think and not to find ways other than employment, and that the program is truly exceptional and what may be the solution to the plight of the poor and to an economic crisis. But now, it looks that I’m the loser, as the program is not like that and I’m losing money.
Hello Marsha,
Well 1st of all no one that cares for other people and are truly concerned about the plight of the less fortunate is no way a loser. Some people are destined to remain in the place that they have put them selves in, as they believe it’s not there fault they are there and in todays society it is very easy to place blame everywhere. As far as the BT being the solution to poverty, that will never happen. Poverty has been around since forever and will not ever leave. The problem is greed. Founders of businesses such as the BT will prove that to you. Just like right now with the bonus pools being at such a low and wanting members to “hang in there” will we fix them with your money. Did you know that last month was the 1st month that the silver pool paid more than the bronze pool even though it was only a couple of pennies. How could the bronze pool pay more than the silver when you have to reach the bronze pool 1st and then the silver, best case they should pay the same. What they are doing is taking money from the higher pools and adding it to the bronze to try and cover the cost of the membership for people that have made it to the bronze pool Imagine how low it would really be if they were not doing that. What a mess. I once believed like you that the BT was the answer to our retirement and creating a very nice income. The problem I had was it took me 10 months to see the light. Like I have said several times it is a very good idea but needs a lot of work and some better explanations from management.
While I always understood that this is a business and not some kind of charity, in my view, if it was true that the gold level was close to the famous $1336 dollars, then, yes, that would have been a solution to poverty if only people knew about it and agreed to sign up. And I found it sad that many were not, or did not know about it.
This is so even though this is by no means a huge income. But there are many people on welfare or on a small pension or who are working hard for a small salary, of finding themselves in need of an income, or who depend on family members. So such an income would indeed have been of great help, even liberating for some, as having one’s own income can be liberating. And of course, if people have a job or some other income, the Berry Tree “pension” would have been on top of that. In fact, for some people who don’t earn much or whose income is eaten up by various obligations such as supporting a family, that would have significantly increased their income compared to their small salary, or their spending power compared to how much they can now spend on whatever they want. And that, even though the amounts would not have been really huge, not would I have expected them to be.
Hello Monica,
The $1336.00 per month comes from the Matrix pay out; 1st branch 8 people at $7.00 each for $56.00, 2nd branch 64 people at $4.00 each for $256.00 and 3rd branch 512 people at $2.00 each for $1024.00 totaling $1336.00 for a full tree. The $1336 has nothing to do with the pools.
I understand now, but I saw advertising that gave that impression.
Speaking of which, they said that in one of their emails (before Saturday’s call, and they did not announce that officially yet):
“The Berry Tree is under going a complete make over and reconstruction of the matrix from a 8×3 to a 2×6 which will create some serious spillover for those who are already enrolled in The Berry Tree and for all new members who join before the the roll out of the new marketing and compensation plan coming the 1st part of June.”
In that case, how many will be in the new matrix? More or fewer than before? At the current rates (notice that they can change those, too, but I really don’t know what they’ll do), would the new tree be worth more or less? Would those who actually have large trees lose and those with few, if any, people in the downline win?
Hey Monica, actually you should be very careful how you look at MLM programs and devise goals. Now, I personally love MLMs and affiliate programs that give us the leverage to earn commissions from other brick&mortar companies so we don’t have to spend a fortune building our own company, product line, mass advertising, and everything else that comes with it.
However, a key worth remembering: MLM companies can die at any minute of any day, and cause their builders and promoters to immediately forfeit any business or downline they worked hard for. I’ve seen this happen many times and leave people very angry. And by saying the MLMs can ‘die,’ it can actually happen in many different ways. Sometimes a company just decides to completely eliminate all MLM characteristics and other times it changes it’s MLM structure to a simple, direct referral or affiliate commission model; i.e. you are only paid for your 1st level and all others are forfeit. And then, in the most severe cases, sometimes the company goes up in flames altogether.
Sometimes a MLM won’t ‘die,’ but it will change in a way that drastically hurts your current income or forces you to question whether or not it is even ethical to further promote it to others.
For these reasons, I would not normally consider it safe to ever plan to use one’s MLM progress as a pension or retirement income plan, no matter what hype comes attached to it. Even if you’re a 1, 2, or 3 star in the company, you’re still never 100% safe. For example- and I hate to be the one to bring this up but… the berrytree side program was originally created to increase the numbers because automatic builder with nutronix was failing to grow. What happens if the berry tree fails? I’m certainly not giving up hope with bt, but recent events do send a small chill down my spine. The growth rate is falling and our top architechs need to design something that will pack a punch …. and SOON.
To my pal Red honor,
That’s quite a rant against the Phelps you wrote earlier. And while I admit that I’ve tempted to be jealous over their income marks, we still need to realize that it’s THEIR SYSTEM! Rob and Art are the people who took the time and resources to develop this system which has aided several in their Nutronix journey. What’s wrong with them earning that 60-100K / month for their hard work?
To me, getting even as little as several hundred a month (on top of expenses), not to speak of over one thousand, just for having remained in the program, without having to go to work every day to earn it, would certainly have been like a pension. Maybe not a pension in the sense that it would have been safe, or affordable, enough to quit my job and live just on that. But it would still have been money received each month without working for it, and without the stigma attached to welfare or some other handout. On top of my salary or other income, which is the beauty of it.
As for the company, it existed for a long time. Why would it fail now? Nothing is sure, but the company seemed stable enough.
And don’t forget that since the money would have been an extra, it would have been possible to save it, one way or another, whether for retirement or not, although, frankly, I was likely to just blow it while it lasts and pay my credit card debt as well. Provided that they really paid that kind of money. So that’s how I saw it when I signed up. That seemed to be the plan of the century.
Hi Monica,
If it is set up the same way there would be less people in each tree. It would take a total of 246 people to fill one tree. Then depending upon a few things like what does each level pay for each member. Also in the 3X8 once your second branch was filled you were given another tree, I should not say given because it is not free. given this system if even the next tree came at after the 4th branch was filled you would get a second tree with less people so there would be more trees therefore more $55.95 per month. Depending on if the company put the money that they are making back into the members pockets it would help. If they fatten there pockets then you know the answer. ( I would think the latter based on past performance) It looks like it could certainly help, as I think anything would be an improvement. I also think that selling the members that have been bought by the advertising money is a direct slap in the face of the members. That is the 1st thing that I saw that was a huge bring down. I started being leery at that point. I had already contributed to the advertising for those members and was advertising on my own. When I brought in a full member they were only worth $27.00, so please explain to me how a free trial member is worth $111.00 that I have already paid for. What a rip off that was and still is. That is corporate greed at its highest form. We will see what happens
I don’t understand. If you don’t feel like paying $111 for someone who signed up for a free trial but who may quit, that’s up to you. But why are you saying that you paid for those already? How are you contributing to advertising? Isn’t it that you have to pay your monthly fees and then the company decides what to do with the money? They must spend something for advertising for sure, but they decide how much, including how much to just keep for themselves, or if they should or should not waste it on something you wouldn’t want them to buy. Right?
Hello Richard,
I recently sent you an e-mail. Please check the box corresponding with the e-mail you’ve been listing in the “posting qualifications” for these comment sections.
Make sure to check the Bulk/Spam section, since I originally sent this e-mail from yahoo and it tends to treat about 50% of all mail (good or bad) as spam.
Thanks,
- Ryan
Hi Ryan,
I did not receive any emails from you. I will keep checking, and the email address that I see is the correct one. I also have a yahoo address if you want to send it there.
OK Monica,
With your $50.00 a month that you pay into the BT, the 1st month when a new member comes in $27.00 goes towards the fast start and the balance ($23.00) goes to the company. A portion of that money goes towards advertising to bring in new members. The 2nd month and every month after that the $50.00 is broken down as $15.00 is put into the pools and $13.00 goes towards the matrix pay. The balance $22.00 goes to the company. And again a portion of that goes towards advertising, I do not know how much goes to each. I understand that it takes money run the company. Still a portion of the balance goes towards bringing in new members to be placed into the trees of the members. I have already paid into advertising every month to bring in members, and when the BT was 1st started there was no free trial so all members would have been full members. The advertising never got started on schedule and was put off for at least 6 months or more. When it did kick off it was very slow and it was for free trial members instead of full members. Then came the bombshell, the members being brought in by the already paid for advertisements were going to be sold to the members. I feel I have already bought them through my monthly dues. The price of a free trial member at $111.00 is outrageous to say the least. I think because of the new members were coming in at a much slower rate that had been projected so the advertising was delayed. The existing members were told that they were fine tuning everything to get it just right. I guess it is still off key as they are still tuning it. So to get more money for advertising they started charging for the members that they were bringing in. I can understand the reasoning but the cost is far, far beyond what a free trial member is worth. Then to top that off if you did pay for the member they were not even placed in your tree. I mean kick me while I’m down please. The reason for that was to kill three birds with one stone. You can possibly get a personally sponsored member if you can get one of them to upgrade to full member (and $27 fast start) and other people can start receiving company placements, and the company can get more money. It’s really pretty simple. I never bought any free trial members for the BT or guaranteed sign ups for Nutronix. I had my own mailing system and bought co-reg leads and sent out several hundred thousand a day. Set up my own pages and was on the phone calling prospects 6 days a week. With the cost of 2 sets of free trial members I could do what I was doing for 2 months and get much better prospects. I was spreading the leads to my downline and BT members.
What’s co-reg leads?
Hey again Richard,
I suppose I’m not too surprised. Yahoo can be a little irritating to work with sometimes, as this isn’t the first time this has happened to me.
But, no worries. It’s just my luck that yahoo does create a back-up in a “Sent” box, so I should just be able to copy & paste my original message without any hassle.
Just to make sure this e-mail actually goes through, would you mind just sending me a blank or short e-mail to my main address? RyzAutomatic@yahoo.com
If your e-mail goes through, I should be able to reply without a problem.
Thanks,
- Ryan
I wanted to send out a special “Thank You” to everyone who has been participating in this discussion. I’ve enjoyed reading the different perspectives, opinions, and explanations.
This community interaction is actually what I hoped to see us achieve when this blog was born last January.
You can find out more at my latest article recognizing this topic and our contributors:
http://berrytreeinfo.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/berry-tree-infos-top-post/
Have a good one!
- Ryan
It appears like they are going to make the necessary changes so I will hang on through July.
[QUOTE by NuJerZ:
That’s quite a rant against the Phelps you wrote earlier. And while I admit that I’ve tempted to be jealous over their income marks, we still need to realize that it’s THEIR SYSTEM! Rob and Art are the people who took the time and resources to develop this system which has aided several in their Nutronix journey. What’s wrong with them earning that 60-100K / month for their hard work?]
Bah!! You not only missed the point. You started cracking out assumptions.
The issue isn’t about being jealous over someone else’s income. What if I am jealous of the Phelp’s little empire and income that comes attached? I could also be jealous of Bill Gates and his mass microsoft fortune. But I dont’ feel like he owes me anything in particular [unless i bought one of his hellhole computers lol] Know why? Because billy boy didn’t make all these grandiose promises to help me build a golden mlm empire. billy ain’t charging me 10 bucks a month for a poor quality system only to use that money as fuel to coax me into wasting more money on overpriced and undervalued leads. And billy ain’t trying to deceive me and the rest of a conned community into believing that these leads are designed to help us when in fact the only priority all along was more cash into founder’s pockets.
Jealousy? Puleeease. If you take a look at the kingpins behavior, failure to fix current problems, and overall desire and foremost priority to increase their paychecks regardless of the effects on the rest of their organization…and all YOU can do is say ‘you’re just jealous.” Then my goodness forget it pal, closing the door to the prison you apparently want to be locked into. And those greedy swindlers can continue to poke holes in your savings account while you praise them with a black blindfold.
Oh and 100K is a pretty lousy estimate given the fact that they earn over 50K from nutronix every month. At least 150K if not much more from Ab $10 fees and likely several thousand from their ridiculous horizons marketing WHICH by the way I did confirm is owned by the phelps bros.
howard, yep those leaders make it ‘appear’ that the ‘necessary changes’ are going to take place almost every month. And for some reason the entire community clings to some blind faith that eventually the bt will release some magic vaccine that will cure all the terrible plagues on the bonus pools. I guess its time for some people to wake up and realize that the bt is a very simple, per member bonus allocation system. A reasonable bronze pool rate of $100 as originally promised cannot be attained unless current bt growth continues to grow faster and faster and FASTER. and that means even if yonan , the phelps and others would get off their greedy red bums to stop peddling knockoff leads and focus on a heavy plan to actually increase the bt growth rate, eventually the basic bonus pools would still be forced back to a miserable position in the $20 or 30 range and even less in due time. Because even the most outstanding marketing promotions will lead the bt into a strict level of market saturation sooner or later.
Sure this new ‘amazing news’ of the bronze pool being increase to $5 a person may once again temporarily increase the pools. but a few months down the road that pool value will slump back to the pitiful $20 levels, unless of course the entire skeleton of the bt payplan is restructured. But i wouldn’t count on that. bt and ab founders alike are happy digging in their current gold.
Monica,
A co-registration (co-reg) lead when a person signs up for a product or anything that is advertised on the internet. During the process they may be asked to check other things that they may be interested in, such as insurance quotes, home businesses, or a variety of other things, so that they can get a better price on or better yet the product that they are signing up for free. In the terms and conditions will be a paragraph that they are agreeing to that says that the information that they are giving will be sold. Depending on how many times they are sold before I received them would determine how well I would do with them. These leads are all dated, time stamped, and with IP addresses. They also had addresses and phone numbers. I had a pretty good lead source so I did fairly well with them. I hope that helps, and there are also other ways to advertise that will help you build your business. You need to find a business that will stand behind you if you are willing to spend a lot of money on advertising. Later I will explain why the free trial members that you are buying are not very good.
Howard,
Quote “It appears like they are going to make the necessary changes”
OK Howard lets look at this. are they going to make changes ? It certainly looks like they are. Are they the necessary ones? Only time will tell. They changes that have been made to date has not helped at all, and as I look at it has only hindered the growth of the Berry Tree. I will agree with Red Honor that the $5 added to the pools will make them jump but it will only be a temporary fix. I have 2 questions that maybe someone can answer. Where is the $5.00 coming from, and are they going to change the advertising?
Several places as where the $5 can come from; 1) the fast start bonus decreased to $22.00, 2) It can come from the advertisement budget, 3) the restructuring of the matrix from the 3×8 to the 2×6 will probably mean less matrix pay and I am leaning towards that. and 4) possibly a little from each of the 3 above memtioned places (or at least from 2 of them) is my second pick. I do know where its not coming from, and that is from the company.
Will they change the way they are advertising? I would have to say no, as much as I would like to see that changed. Just like Red Honor stated above until more members are being brought in and at a quicker pace the BT is destined for failure. And because the Phelps are making money from the advertising then it will not change.
So the changes that are coming may or may not be the necessary ones.
Richard,
You make some very valid points. And bringing more people into faster is unlikely now that the “bloom is off the rose” with BT. The Bronze Pool has to be attractive for people to suffer through 200 bucks a month to get there. It is surely possible to take the 5 bucks from the inflated product price also. I cringe when I see it come in the mail. $58 bucks for this I say under my breath! Like I said before, the silver is a great product….but it is nudging out my Honda O. And my wife thinks I am an idiot and that is not easy to carry either. She wants me out.
I am certainly not spending another dime on ads until the thing shakes out. For me, all advertising has been unproductive so I would not single out AB for blame. Nothing works very well for me on the internet, that is why I was going to suffer until I hit the Bronze Pool.
Hello Ryan,
I sent you an email this morning from the address that I signed up with this morning. Please let me know if you did not receive it.
Richard
Howard, if you did not even qualify for the Bronze pool yet, you were not going to receive bonus pool commissions anyway during the time it takes to qualify, right? So why not wait no matter what? Maybe the situation will be better by the time you qualify.
Hey admin, didn’t you say you were going to comment and give us your thoughts on some of this recent discussion?? Id’ be very interested to hear your opinions
There are news:
“It’s here, it’s here!! The new BT structure and compensation plan will be announced on tomorrow (Thurs) night’’s call – at 9:00 PM Est. Saturday’’s training call (11:00 AM Est) will go into a more detailed explanation of the new comp plan. The comp plan will go into effect on 6/1 and will be reflected in the commission run on 7/20.
I encourage you to listen to the calls. The new comp plan is most exciting and will cause our Company to grow by leaps and bounds. These are some of the enhancements:
The Bronze Pool is being increased substantially (up to 5 fold!)!
Passive members will earn more, those who build to Regional and beyond will earn more, and with participation in all 3 – Nutronix, BT, and AB, you will increade up to double BT earnings!
The new AB back office for BT will launch tomorrow, probably just after the announcement.
Berry Greens Boost is ready! It should also become available tomorrow.”
In a different message, Art & Rob Phelps, Bob Bremner and Johnny Moates are saying “If you can join us a few minutes early on the phone we would like to personally welcome you!”
Red honor,
Your response is such a degrading, hostile pile of sludge that I won’t even waste time following up with you. Get lost.
I guess you can keep whining your life away while others make money and do something with their time in this planet.
Adios amigos!
nujerz,
your attempt to insult me with your feeble assumptions and following decision to cower away instead of respond only makes you appear thickheaded.
‘Whining away while others make money’?? How could you possibly know how much money I make? I could be an heir to the walton fortune or a poor bum that sneaks into internet cafes for all you know. just because I’m a bit ‘too honest’ for the average person and don’t have the time or will power to suger coat every argument I present doesn’t automatically make me some hopeless wreck living in poverty. Interesting though that i see similar responses all the time on discussion panels. It usually implies that the poster is too frustrated b/c he doesn’t have a decent argument to present anymore. So if that’s the case then so be it. Adios to you as well. I certainly don’t want to waste time arguing with someone covering their ears and singing la-la-la all day
been a long time since i visited this place last, whoooey! I can’t believe all the posts that have appeared since then haha. actually learned a lot from it. well in spite of all that was talked about, i can’t really say anything has changed. the bt sounded overrated then and it still does. only difference i see now is that some people seem to think the leaders aren’t capable of fixing the company. starting to sound like evil greed seen through the old mlm companies. here was a quote a long time ago from viper:
“You’re not going to find another MLM that offers a reward for being lazy.
Instead of complaining about a small reward, why not realize that no other company would even repay you for loyalty.
Other companies only care about results and results only!!! Berry tree cares about both.”
not sure if you’re still here or not but i might as well reply. i don’t mean to complain about the extra rewards. my point was that everyone hypes up the bt credits and the fact that you earn money doing nothing. and i do NOT see those credits as a worthy investment. just look at those crappy bonus pools. as i said earlier the only reason i would join is for the berry product. but it appears that no one is interested in talking about that. its only money money MONEY
Well Kyle,
What I can say about the product is that most of the people that I know that uses it seems to think that it works. I enrolled into the BT and Nutronix to earm an extra income and eventually create a very nice living for my family and myself. My wife uses the o2berry product every day and it seems to help her have a little more energy. I am not sure exactly what is in the product (it may be some exotic coral), I do know that you can buy different kinds of sea salt and add that to water and drink it everyday and it will do the same thing that the o2berry product does at a much less cost.
I can see that you are very excited Monica, and I hope that the changes that they are making will help. I would think that everyone in the Berry Tree that have been receiving these dismal payouts will be excited to. I am sure the uplines are frantically calling or sending emails to all of their people as I have already received 3 emails my self to make sure that I am listening in tonight. I wish that they would have notified us last week as my wife and I have made plans tonight. I can tune in on Sat and catch the info and I may do that. I will share my concern with you as you can probably tell I am less than hopeful. This ship started sinking about 8 or 9 months ago and the leaders were using a teaspoon to bail out the water so it kept right on sinking, maybe a little slower but still sinking at a rapid rate. Now they are changing from a teaspoon to maybe a tablespoon, (I hope I am wrong) and it will delay the sinking a little more. And when the ship goes down the leaders will have fat bank accounts and we will have nothing. As soon as the details come out I would ask you to look at the amount of money that is put back into the program for payouts. If it is the same as before only rearranged and the same amount goes to payouts it will keep sinking. If the company takes less and pays out more then it may have a chance. Remember the break down now is $27 or $28 towards payouts and the balance towards the company. If that stays the same start hunting for a lifeboat. Also remember the breakdown for what the company spends on advertisements is not known. One last thing when the unsinkable Titanic went down only the rich were saved.
If you can’t listen to it at the right time, you can listen to the recording letter. At the bottom of at least some of the emails from our leadership or your upline, you will find the information on where to listen. Although if you listened to calls before, you may already know where that is, as it is pretty much in the same places.
And for my monthly fees (even for AB/Nutronix, not just for the Berry Tree), my own problem has just been solved, although it is not solved for my advertising. Or for other people. It’s simple: I got a raise at work that will cover that.
I have a fixed salary (not to be confused with a high salary), not an hourly wage, so don’t worry: it’s not that I’m miscalculating my future earnings. It really is that from now on, it’s almost as if my boss, not me, paid the fees. It’s nice to know that I can afford to lose money now.
By the way, the call is going to start late (if they don’t finally cancel, because it’s very late), and a man’s voice actually announced that they are delayed, so it’s not that I’m not listening when and where I’m supposed to or with the right equipment. Those of you who could not make it tonight can check later to see if it’s on after you come back.
They had problems with the main conference room but you can listen at http://www.abwebinar.com/.
See the following links provided during the call:
http://www.berrymembercredits.com
http://www.btcompplan.com
http://www.bnaadvantage.com.
The programmers are compressing the matrix. Everybody you sponsor will fall underneath you.
The compensation plan will be explained more in detail Saturday at 11.
If you have an Automatic Builder site, now, in the upper right corner, it says Go to AB Berry Tree, and you can go to the Berry Tree site of Automatic Builder. From which you can go back to the Nutronix site by clicking on Go to AB Nutronix.
New Berry Tree members get the site for free during the first 30 days, and the number of remaining days will appear on their site. Presumably, since we can go back and forth between both sites, we only have to pay for one site, if we are both in Nutronix and in the Berry Tree. They did not say anything about that, though.
Good Morning Monica,
I am not going to tear this apart yet as its to early to tell. I can see several things that will probably help. The bronze pool will certainly pay more with $5.00 going into that pool, and the plan seems to reward people more if you are actively sponsoring people. Which will make members want to promote the business. I also like that no free trial members that are brought into the company by advertising will not be placed into members trees. Of the things that I do not like my main concern in that as I feared the money has been rearranged and now it appears the company is now paying out less than what they were before. The fast start dropped from $27.00 to $20.00 , but I see that a new enticement pool has been created to make members try to enroll people and the money from the fast start has been put into it.
The matrix is a little harder for me to figure out but I do not like the matrix pay at all. The 1st 6 people in your tree you do not get paid for, then you get paid for the next 8 with a maximum pay out of $24.00 a month for your 1st 14 people. In the old plan for those same 14 people you would be making $80.00 a month. Also in the old plan when you had 8 people your BT cost was covered and now with 14 its not. If there is a major flaw this is it, and the reason is the BT still promotes that you can succeed in this business without doing anything at all. When a new member enrolls and just wants to sit and do nothing and he starts getting some spillover then doesn’t get paid for them until he has at least 7 people in his tree and then he gets a whopping $3.00 for that 7th person, and trust me on this one it will be several months probably anywhere from 6 to 10 months before he gets that 7th person even if by then and the reason that I say that is there is no mention of any changes to the terrible advertising that they do. Now on to the second level of pay in the matrix; after you have 14 people and you are getting your $24.00 (and I am basing this on people that are promoting the business, not the non workers) the next 48 people that are in your tree you do not get paid for. So at this point you have 62 people in your tree and you are only getting paid for 14 of them. But we have reached level 6 and it holds 64 people which when you fill that branch you get $3.00 for each person on that branch which is $192.00 plus your $24.00 for a grand total of $216.00 for having 126 people in your tree. The old system would have paid you $420.00 levels 7 and 8 again you make nothing from them so that is another 484 members in you tree that you do not get paid for. I cannot compare branch 9 because at this point you have well oner 1000 people in your tree and the old system only had 584 people paying $1336.00 for a full tree. This plan takes over 8000 members to fill a tree which would pay you $4,312.00. With the old plan that many members would give you 14 trees that would pay $18,704.00, Where has the $14,000.00 gone. One guess Mechanicsville Virginia and New York (Rob and Art live in New York). As I have said and several others have said until they offer the new members some kind of enticement to keep them in the program as passive members all of this bait and switch stuff is not going to work. Join the berry tree and do nothing and you will succeed, and just to prove that if you pay us $55.95 a month for who knows how many months will will give you $3.00 after we put 7 people in your tree. How long are they going to stay?
Also I am not trying to be a wise guy but as far as your raise from work that mentioned it looks as the Phelp’s and Brenner’s got a raise.
I really got a raise. It’s just that it will help pay the fees, instead of me still paying the fees, but out of the smaller salary I used to have. One way or another, the same money still goes from me to the Phelp’s and the Brenner’s, like you put it.
Since you understand the system better, why don’t you tell these kinds of things to Nutronix? But wait until Saturday, when they will explain this more.
I also got by email this info:
“The BerryBoost sell page and product are in the back office but it doesn’t look like the pages are up yet. Also the new lead capture and follow up system aren’t ready yet, but should be very soon.”
The same person is saying ” I have lots of great ideas based on this new compensation and matrix structure that I will formulate completely as soon as the new matrix is in place and I can see exactly what we are working with.” But that’s just someone from my upline.
Monica,
I spent 10 months of my life promoting Nutronix and the Berry Tree and a lot of money. I am waiting before I do anything. I am not saying this will not work. I do not think that it will unless a few more changes are made. Some thing has to come into play that will keep the new members in longer than 1 or 2 months. I do not see it in this set up. The only thing that I see is the bronze pool paying more and spillover happening faster. But what good is the spillover if the members are not getting paid for it. For every person that reaches the bronze pool there has to be 20 people that are not in that pool for them to receive $100.00,and that is at $5.00 per member into the bronze pool. I do not see that happening. When the bronze pool jumps because of the $5.00 the ratio of members joining has to be 20 to 1 or better. I hope it happens that way, we are in the bronze and silver so we will get paid for those 2 pools. The problem is always the same; Greed. I told you to watch for one thing and that is are the leaders willing to live off of $40,000 a month instead of $50,000. what I am saying is that actually just gave themselves a raise, and that really concerns me. Will they put in some of there money to test the waters? If this looks as if it is working I will start promoting the business again. Not Nutronix only the Berry Tree. One last thing, there is absolutely no reason for me to give them any suggestions as they would not listen to them anyway. I have no idea how old you are or what you are doing in your life but always remember this. When a person thinks that know everything they are unteachable.
Monica,
I did forget to address one thing. When your upline member sent you that email, I am sure he/she has figured out ways to promote what is happening with the berry tree. Getting people to join has never been a problem, the problem is getting them to stay. If you go into your back office of the ab they show you how many people are joining everyday. What they don’t show you is how many are quitting. Every time that sold me a bill of goods I used that bill of sell to bring in members. As soon as the flaws were exposed the members quit. It will happen again. They can not tell people if they join, they will not have to work and they will have success, and not show them something pretty fast they will become like Casper the ghost.
What about their comments on how much easier it is to recruit just 2 people who recruit 2 people each and so on, which is part of the reason they changed the matrix structure? That does not mean that commissions are higher for recruiting just 2 people than for 8. But maybe recruiting really works better this way, even if it’s just because results seem more immediate.
Again Monica,
For people like myself, its not hard to get people to join, its hard to keep them. The BT promotes that you do not have to do anything do make money. Just join and be loyal and you will be rewarded. That is the whole thing, you recruit 2 people and they don’t do anything because they are told that they don’t have to. That is the big draw of the Berry Tree No work, and you will be successful. Most of the people that come into the Berry Tree will not recruit anyone. I recruited probably over 70 people total and only 2 of them actually tried to do something. It was hard to get anyone to do anything in Nutronix where you have to do something. It’s impossible to get someone to do something when they are told that they don’t have to. The company has to come up with something that will make people stay, and the only thing that that will be is some income. Putting 6 people under them and telling them they are not going to receive any pay is not the answer. It’s easy to get someone to join for $4.95 and then tell them they can make money with no other effort. It’s really easy to get someone to join for $55.95 and that they will earn money by doing nothing, but they need to be shown some money.
There is also the Senior Certificate. They are now saying that “the plan is about to change and that certificate is going to be worth an on-going increase in monthly income, not just a one time increase. There will be a grace period to re-establish the certificate if you have already redeemed it.”
Hi everybody. I’m John Barnett and I have come to suspect some of the things that Richard and the Red honor have presented here. 1st, I do not appreciate the berry tree focusing on appealing to people who do not want to work to earn money. Even if they are recruited it will only slow down our progress, because we will primarily consist of people who want to be lazy and as Richard said, many will just quit. This is not appropriate for an mlm company. 2nd, I think the berry tree restructing and the generated leads being sold are favoring the people at the top of the business like Art&Rob, Matt, and Bremners. I hate to accuse people of these sort of things, but I don’t see any signs of our best intentions coming first. I was tempted to leave last month but my upline insisted that things would improve. I sure hope his words come true.
Hello John,
I think you are right on target. The BT is a good idea and bringing people in a free trial could possibly work. The pay structure needs to be fixed so that when people come in that can make some money and then they would stay. As always the thing that kills a good idea is corporate greed just as you said. Nothing wrong with the big boys making some money but if you are the head of a business you need to throw some bones to the dogs doing the work on occasion. All you get here is the promise of a bone. If they ever throw one it will not have any meat on it.
Red honor,
Quote – “I could be an heir to the walton fortune or a poor bum that sneaks into internet cafes for all you know.”
If those were the only two options, based on how you’ve acted thoroughout this entire discussion, I’d put ALL my money on “poor bum.”
Quote – “Interesting though that i see similar responses all the time on discussion panels. It usually implies that the poster is too frustrated b/c he doesn’t have a decent argument to present anymore.”
Arguments and discussions? What would you know about any of that? All you’ve done the entire time is spread filthy attacks and smear degrading comments all over this place. Oh, and before you can reply to that…Just because I wasn’t trying to present any argument last post doesn’t change my original point several posts back…which is the fact that you never had an argument to begin with.
Nujerz,
I’M the one who never had an argument to begin with? LOL! I admit i’m a little honest and bold at times but just like I said earlier, I’m not going to waste my precious time attempting to suger coat all my words b/c I’m not here to be a people pleaser. I tell it like it is and explain how I feel. Others such as you may not like my tone or opinions. That’s fine. don’t listen to me then. I could care less. But it sure seems that most of the regulars around here have read my words, agreed with me to some extent and even backed me up. Such as Richard, howard, and John. And it appears we’re starting to get to the meat of the problems with this company.
How about you? What have you accomplished with your wishy washy ‘OHHH let’s be nice and give the phelps boys and others every benefits of the doubt and then go paint pretty pictures of rainbows” and other unexplained and even confusing displays of loyalty?? Nothing! So you can continue to mope around and claim my reasonsing doesnt count as an ‘argument’ in your book but high chances are that no one would want to read your book anyway. For obvious reasons I’ll continue posting the same.
Monica,
The senior certificate is a gift to Nutronix. One lady I know cashed hers in and got $50. That was worth the $550.00 investment. You get paid for the senior certificate based on what the pools are paying. If the pools aren’t paying anything then neither will the senior certificate. Look at the track record, 14 months ago the BT was born, since then their has been nothing but problems. The launch was put off, 3 times, the advertising campaign was put off, for 6 months and then partially started, We have been told it is in full force now. Is it? I haven’t seen anything and I have been a member since May. The free trail membership was implemented in late Sept or early Oct, another failure. Sure people were signing up, got their 7 day supply of sand and then quit. The argument; it’s a good product, 1 in a 1000 join for the products if that. Then came the selling of the free trial members, what a joke, the reason for that was because the company was not getting enough members in to effectively advertise to bring in members after the leaders took theirs. So they figured a way to get more money from you. Sell you the members that you have already paid for, and because the leaders at this point thinks that anyone that is still in has to be on the low end of the IQ range, after anyone bought the free trial member they put them in some one else’s tree. After that failed they came up with at least putting them in the person’s tree that paid for them. Not working either, now comes this plan, doesn’t look that promising to me. They have said over and over again they are fine tuning this and when it is presented it will be right. how many times do you take your car to the mechanic that keeps selling you new tires when you need an alignment. Your upline is telling you what they need to tell you to keep you in. They need you in. I had 2 people in my BT call me yesterday and asked what I thought about this new plan. I told them the same thing I am telling you. One of them had 7 BMC’s and wanted to know if it was worth waiting 5 more months to get to 10. The other only had 3 BMC’s, I could not tell them to stay even though when both quit it will knock me out of the silver pool. The $40.00 is not worth my integrity. So if you want to stay and spend $200.00 a month to cash in a senior certificate please do. $550.00 plus $200.00 a month for 12 months is just short of $3000.00. Please remember that this new plan only enhances the bronze pool to get it to $100.00 or so. So I ask is it worth spending $3000.00 to get the Bronze pool plus the silver. You may get $300 0r $400. Thats a real bargain for the company not you.
One last thing, You need to read all of the postings in hear and weigh out what people are saying. Nothing you or anyone else does effects me one way or the other. If you stay in the BT that is fine with me, if you quit that’s OK. If you read what Red Honor is saying, we are on the same page, I will admit he is a little more aggressive than I am but still we are saying the same thing. All I am saying is weigh out the evidence that we are presenting with the promises that you are receiving. You have a track record and you have promises. Remember the old saying “Wish in one hand……………….
Please, Richard, and anyone who actually understands the system better really well, listen to the new (May 17) Saturday call, where they actually explained the system in more detail. I listened myself, but I’m still kind of confused.
The explanation started after they spent some time talking about other things, such as how great MLM can be and 100 thousand people in the US became millionaires within the last 6 years (I think overall, not just through MLM). There was also a slide show that was presented during the call. Actually, I’m writing this as the call is still on.
The slide show was presented at the main conference room (and probably by just seeing the link in a different browser), but for sound, I listened at abwebinar.com. Where you will find the recording later, if you did not listen live. The presentation was at http://www.matthewyonan.com/bt.html (I’ll let you know if they provide other links instead, as the call is not over yet). They said that you will be able to see it after the call.
As for the Senior Certificate, I did not quite understand what’s the advantage for those who already paid for the highest level, called Senior Director.
There were 3 levels, called Junior Executive, Executive Director and Senior Director. Basically, those who were only Junior or Executive get the opportunity to pay for the 500 cv (commissionable value) package and become Senior Advantage Members. But those who already paid and were Senior Directors, what do they get? It seemed to me that nothing except the privilege of remaining at the same level under a different name (Senior Advantage Member), and they no longer get paid at the next highest commission level for one month. I was told that this Senior Advantage is actually much better. Is it so? I’m not saying that it is not. I’m just confused.
I have another question.
The Senior Certificate was after 6 months. One could become Senior Director immediately after paying. It’s just that after 6 months, they got the Senior Certificate that entitled them to higher commissions for one month. But they were Senior Directors during those 6 months, too.
Do people now have to wait those 6 months just to become something like Senior Director, but called Senior Advantage Member? Or do they still get their status immediately?
Monica,
I have not listened the call, or seen anything about it. What I know about the original senior certificate is that when you join Nutronix as a Senior Ex with a $550.00 order and maintain autoship in the BT and Nutronix for 6 months and also be a member of AB for six month you will be issued a senior certificate. You can cash this in within the next 12 months at any time you want to. You will be paid from the bonus pools at the next level that you have obtained in Nutronix. For instance if you have reached regional director in Nutronix you would be paid for the next level up which is national director instead of regional. You would be paid for this in the BT also for 1 month. So if you were a regional last month and cashed in you certificate you would have gotten an extra $131.00 from both Nutronix and the BT for a tremendous $262.00 for your $3,000.00 investment.(I’m sorry you will also have shelves full of products) Below is a quote from there senior certificate web page
“Owning a Senior Certificate could mean tens of thousands of extra dollars in your pocket.”
My belief is that things are so bad in the BT that they are doing anything they can to get people to stay and spend more money. Offering senior certificates to Jr and Ex directors, looks like a nice profit for the company. If people buy a senior certificate they are more likely to stay for another 6 months. Do I hear the sounds of cha-ching for the company.
Remember what I told you before the only pool that has been enhanced is the bronze pool and that will only last for 4 to 6 months. The rest of the pools will stay at the dismal levels they are at. Actually they will probably go down as their is less money going towards them now. That $5.00 had to come from somewhere. You didn’t think the company was going to put in any did you?
I will say this again, if they can not figure out a way to keep the new members in the BT it is going to sink. The new members need to start making some money with in the 1st 2 months or its see you later. As they quit and people are getting more BMC’s you will have more people in the bronze pool and the 20 to 1 ratio that I mentioned will not be met so the bronze pool will start dropping again. So what is the next thing adding more money to the bronze? I have heard all of this over and over again, but just like everything they have come up with it ends up more money for the company.
Oh, please, can you actually listen to the recording of that call? You may understand that better than I did. For instance, I’m not sure what happened to the 6-month waiting period since apparently, now, they no longer offer the one-time payment at the next hignest commission level. And they were talking a lot about what great commissions they have now.
Oh Please, is that what you are saying now? Oh please. You ask for an explantion and I gave you one and you say Oh Please. I do not feel like wasting 2 hours of my time listening to Matt Yonan, the Phelps and anyone else go on for 2 hours to give out 5 minutes worth of information. All I want to hear is about the plans not listen to an extra hour and 55 minutes of hogwash. If I were you Monica I would buy a senior certificate and hang on to it. Please stay in the BT and get rich.
But your explanation is not based on the latest facts as presented in today’s call. Which I can assure you that did contain a lot of talk on the compensation plan, not 5 minutes, which is part of the reason I got confused. And I did pay for what it takes to get a Senior Certificate. I did not even get it, but the 6th month was going to be in May (after the 20 or 22, when they update their system and give the BMCs). So they will make me Senior Advantage Member. And I will certainly stay in BT.
As for the site http://www.matthewyonan.com/bt.html, it does not seem to provide a way to go further, but you can see several pages (I don’t know where that stops) by just adding numbers after bt, such as bt1, bt2, and so on. I tried up to 12. They actually showed a few during the call.
Notice that there is a catch. I was at the highest level and I will be allowed to remain at the highest level. Fair anough. And those who did not pay for that have the opportunity to do so now, but then, it’s up to them if they want to pay. Fair enough. But those who cashed their Senior Certificate and may have received a fraction of the cost of that certificate don’t just maintain their Senior Director status under its new name (Senior Advantage Member) like I do. If they want to remain at that level, they must buy a new Senior Pack. At least, that’s what I understood.
Apparently, there is a “grace period” for those who redeemed their certificates and can still cancel. But it seems to me that whoever was “lucky” enough to qualify earlier and cash the Senior Certificate has been bumped out of the highest membership category. Which they can still get into, if they pay for another Senior Pack. Tell me if I’m wrong. That would also help explain where the money comes from.
This is great, I think I will reactivate My AB site and Nutronix site, kick up the advertisement and get those 500 people signed up so that I get starting getting paid for the 9th level on that advantage program. And just think I only need 4,000 people to hit that 12th level. What am I waiting for? 1st let me think, I need to get 2 people on my 1st branch, no pay. then 4 people on my second branch, no pay. then 8 people on my 3rd branch, yeah $24.00. Then 16 people on my 4th branch, no pay, 32 people on my 5th branch,no pay. Oh boy 64 people on my 6th branch $192.00 more. Now 128 people on branch 7, no pay. 256 people on branch 8 no pay. I’ve done it I have worked my but off, spent my kids college funds and I have reached the 9th level so that I can start earning $4.00 on the next 512 people that I bring in. plus the advantage program kicks in for another $5.00 per person I know that the $216.00 I am making will get me thru, so it’s to the top. Now all I need to do is get another 1,024 people on level 10, no pay, and 2,048 and I will have my 11th branch completed, darn no pay for them either. Let’s see my 12 year old daughter has completed college , gotten married and has 3 kids and I have one of them helping me fill branch 12. Only 4,096 more people to go, this won’t take long. But I am making money now from branch 9 so I will be able to go on. Yes well over $4,000 a month. Remember a song by the Yeagers, I don’t know how old you are but it was released in 1968, called “In the year 2525″ I can relate. Where do I sign up.
Richard,
Nathan from your downline in Missouri. Hey shoot me an email as to what is new with you. nevans201@charter.net
AWFUL………JUST PLAIN AWFUL!!
That is all I could say at first when I saw the new bt plan for the first time. It could quite possibly be the most vile mlm payplan i’ve ever seen in my life. I honestly think I would rather participate in an illegal chain letter than this. What sick fools design a payplan in which you can recruit about 3000 members on your first 11 levels and pay you a shitty [pardon my French] $2000 something? Most mlms would pay you $10,000s for that amount of people. And even if by some miraculous 1st through 11th level shift you filled your binary with 8190 people you receive a pathetic $4,312 MAX?! Do you know how few people in the world ever have an organization with even 100 people as opposed to 8000? I know one individual with another mlm who is a hero, star, essentially even a celebrity among his company because he has a orginzation of 4-5000 people. He earns over $40,000 each month from his simple ‘education’ mlm. That’s 10 times the max of what you can earn with the same effort and energy in this new hellhole of a program.
I can’t STAND it when people are used, lied to and mistreated like this. Please, everyone in the BT get out as soon as possible! If there was any doubt that your founders were greedy moneygrubbing bastards its officially gone now! Last I checked, the bt had around 12000 active members. This new catastrophy that the owners call a ‘payplan’ only pays you a majority on the 12th level while you are cheated and receive absolutely nothing on 75% of all the other levels.
Under those conditions, do you know who are the only people that would benefit from such a detestable unorthodox payplan once the current bt trees are compressed to a binary? Surprise, surprise…ONLY the current people at the TOP of the company!! Your LEADERS! They are the ONLY people who will have all levels already accounted for and start earning multiple commissions or even full commissions from that final level.
Please people. Use common sense, save your hard earned money and run away from this greedy kingpin fest.
By the way, I’ve been with The Berry Tree since it started. From the beginning I had been excited about the program because of the way it was structured, it would be everything to everybody. I couldn’t find anything wrong with the program. The business plan was perfect. The only problem was that they didn’t impliment the business plan. The idea of built in advertising was perfect. Only problem was that they didn’t advertise. They did test marketing with the money and kept all of the signups for themselves as a reward for their hard work. They also padded the upper tiers of the matrix with personal friends and family before adding the rest of us into it as well, when they first initiated the matrix at pre-launch. They rarely make a deadline for initiative launches and consitently make poor management and administrative choices. Initially, the talked of all kinds of advertizing, from print to radio and maybe even an informercial. They have done none of this. Matthew has done a magazine ad that benefits himself and a few others have advertised in print as well. But the only advertising they are doing is through their own advertising group and then they are selling the new members to others. They are definately not dristributing the members through out the matrix in any balanced manner either. To date I have had one spill over. The deal was that they were going to use huge pools of advertising dollars to attract new people and the disperse those new people throughout the matrix giving regular spill to everyone. They estimated that it would take about two years for one’s matrix to fill thus earning 1300.00/mo. The problem was that they took the advertising dollars and didn’t advertise and didn’t spill to the general matrix. They have enriched themselves at others expense by enticing with false promises to get people to spend money for senior executive upgrades etc. I spent about 3500.00 advertising and working the program. Actually, it was going quite well. I had at one point about 43 people in my tree. I created spill for some of my downline. However, the management failed at almost everything that they said they would do and as a result, I have about 3 people left and only about 5 BMC’s because I don’t see the value of continued participation in AB or Nutronix. You just can’t keep a group together for any period of time when management is so inept. This month will be the first month that I will owe money for my product. So I will hang in there for another couple months to get my bronze bonus and see if it will be enough to cover my membership. If not , I will drop out. I am just hoping the perhaps management will recognize their mistakes and rectify them, however, I doubt that they will.
Hi Nathan, and welcome to our little discussion group. Like you i’d sure love to see a management team that decides to look out for the wellbeing of their members as opposed to consistent and greedy motions of putting themselves first in every given scenario with this program. After seeing this disgusting restructing of the bt payplan it is now 110% obvious to me that they will never change their ways. They are in this company and program to make money off of us. I just wish that other people in the program could read the simple black and white like the rest of us.
Assuming you’re the same nathan that posted a couple sections back, at least i’m happy to hear that you have Richard as an upline. He’ s a clever guy that has reached the same conclusions in almost every given topic about bt as I have, and i highly doubt he’ll ever feed you any BS.
Now concerning the bts ridiculous promises of a great deal of advertising to help all bt members out…..i’m sooo sick of that ever so tiring excuse that ignorant bt members quote left and right ‘look in your backoffice and you’ll see that bt is in magazines!’ NO, people. Yonan is in magazines and he reaps the direct benefits. and let’s not forget that this only happened ONE time. 1 x 0 benefits to members as a whole is still 0. And just as Nathan said, everything else the bt big boys have promised has never come to pass. All lies, all deception.
On that note i follow what i ended with last time as a message to everyone here….Use common sense, save your hard earned money and run away from this greedy kingpin fest.
It can’t be that bad. You may have misunderstood some details or forgotten about some bonuses. Let’s just work harder, and things may work out better than you thought. You may also want to write to the company, as they may be able to respond to your concerns and objections. I was told that as a SAM, I will have the opportunity to make a lot of money. I’m so lucky I can become a SAM without paying for an extra Senior Pack, since I paid for one a while ago and did not cash my Senior Certificate!
‘It can’t be that bad’, Monica? We may have ‘misunderstood’ some details or bonuses? what details? Please feel free to point them out and explain exactly what i ‘may have’ misunderstood or incorrectly explained above about this new payplan. I sure wish i was wrong but everything that has been presented so far has been a pack of hype and easy indicators for a system that is constantly restructed to favor the bt kingpins. and those that haven’t read into these indicators must be suffering from the terrible disease i like to call MLM unquestioned loyalty. Its a nasty problem that kingpins instill in order to suck the money from their members.
Oh but sure lets all just ‘work harder’ as you so calmly put. i haven’t been able to successfully move the 50 ft hill in my backyard with my bare hands. maybe i should just ‘work harder’! Yeah!! that must be the secret to a hopeless situation completely controlled by other internal forces, in this case gravity….which in the bt case is your precious kingpins.
Listen everyone I am going to post right below all of the really goods about the new comp plan, the good things and also just the OK things. You will find the complete list right under this line.
1) Really good things;
2) Good things;
3) OK things;
Sure, Richard, what are those really good, good and OK things?
Monica,
I could have so much fun with this but I won’t. Just as Red Honor, Myself and now Nathan are saying, there are no good things about it. And by the way Nathan has me mistaken for another fellow named Richard. Monica the pay is only at the top. Do you really think you can get 8,000 people under you. It took a year to get 70 or so. My great grand kids would be working to get that last branch full. But guess who has already got full trees. Guess who are SAMS already. I’m surprised they didn’t retro this and start getting paid from Jan. You will be scratching for your $18.00 and the top will be raking it in. Look at the chart, it’s right on there.
You don’t have to get 8000 people under you. Those few people you can find will get other people under themselves, who get other people underneath, and so on. If we recruit many people, we too will be at the top compared to those who are under us. And to be a SAM, it’s enough to have, or be about to qualify for, a Senior Certificate under the old rules, without having cashed it, or to buy a Senior Pack now and maintain your Berry Tree and Nutronix autoship and Automatic Builder site. Hey, I qualify for a SAM!
Maybe if we work really hard, the plan will work some time in the future, such as by next year. It’s just that many people are not that patient.
By the way, I do have “MLM unquestioned loyalty”. I will stay in the Nutronix programs as long as possible. If I kept spending money for a few years and I became successful only then, I would still feel that I have succeeded. To make me quit, Nutronix would have to actively kick me out or dismantle the programs. This is so even though I don’t quite understand all the details.
You’re right Monica you don’t have to get 8000 under you. You need 8,190 to have a full tree. I guess they put the old you sign up 2 and they sign up 2 and each signs up 2 and so on and so and before you know it you tree is full. You will be making thousands and thousands of dollars. The reality is you will sign up 2 and those 2 won’t do anything, you may sign up 25 people before you get one that will do any work. And because no one is doing anything 20 of those people have quit. I have worked really hard, and spent tons of money on advertising, had long distance nationwide and overseas put in. I was working 6 days a weeks about 12 to 14 hours a day. The program says sign up and you do not have to do any work and you will make money. So people sign up, don’t do anything, and then quit. Let me tell you something else with this program if you do get someone to stay for several months and you happen to get their 1st and 2nd branch full for them and then get someone on their 3rd branch and they see they huge pay of $1.50 (if they are passive thats all they get) they will be gone in about 3 seconds. All I can say is good luck and about a yr or even 6 months from now you will be saying why didn’t I listen to those people. You had better get to work instead of spending so much time in here if you plan on filling that tree. if you need some good advertising sites let me know. I will ask if I can post them in here for you.
I would love to know those sites. But regarding what I will say in 6 months or a year, that’s a short time, and the worse that can hapen is that I will make little or no money. I can afford to pay Nutronix every month, even if I must do so for years. If I ever get any more raises at work, right into advertising they go.
You see, Nutronix fulfills the emotional emptiness in my life. It gives me a goal, the impression or illusion that I’m actually doing something towards that goal and working for myself instead of working for the boss, and it makes me part of a large international team. From time to time, it actually gives me an emotional high because I’m waiting for great news and listening to their enthusiastic calls or reading their emails. It’s the emotional equivalent of church or a sect, as I don’t believe in God. I hope this lasts as long as possible. What would replace Nutronix if I stopped believing or the opportunity disappeared?
QUOTE [By the way, I do have “MLM unquestioned loyalty”.]
Then i truly pity you and i am sorry for the awful consequences that could potentially result. Basic business principles 101 NEVER be careless enough to always assume the best out of people. Always examine, always pay attention. and also remember that just because you choose the path of carelessness does not mean it is practical or even ethical to promote the same to others.
QUOTE [What would replace Nutronix if I stopped believing or the opportunity disappeared?]
……you ARE aware that Nutronix isn’t the only legal mlm with quality products right? But if you absolutely love nutronix then promote nutronix and drop this bt and ab nonsense. You don’t need to participate in this phelps/yonan empire full of deceit to build your business. Hell, you’ll probably even save some money in the process lol.
QUOTE [It’s the emotional equivalent of church or a sect, as I don’t believe in God.]
Wow…….well i thank you for sharing this. I was afraid that the nutronix kingpins and their system was turning into the ancient Amway systems of greed. I now have that confirmed. you may want to research that topic as i’m sure you’ll find it extremely interesting. the old Amway kingpins would attempt to stress training tools, team promises and community to such a high extent that it allowed for terms of mind control and even brainwashing to some extent. when asked why all this ra-ra was emphasized an expert replied ‘Because it creates a dependency and it creates a habit that keeps you bound to that business.’
Monica you don’t need this garbage. you can easily find something out there that doesn’t constantly mislead you and break promises. and i speak this very lightly when i say that God’s role most certainly does not deserve to be replaced by a package of money grubbers at the top of the nutronix line. They may have you caught up emotionally and under their thumb and i can even relate but trust me. you need to find a way to break out of it. I tried to tell friends of mine the exact same thing 5 years ago in amway. they kept arguing with me saying ‘their kingpins were so honest and they would be swimming in money some day’ as they continued to sink deeper and deeper in debt. I kept showing them the truth and they kept shooing me away calling me ‘negative’ even when they were over -$8000 in the hole. by the time they finally accepted the truth they lost more than 10k because of their ‘unquestioned loyalty.’ that’s why you need to break away from it. am i saying that you will necessarily lose 10K? no. but no one deserves to be abused and taken advantage of like this. it’s sick. And i hope eventually you see these people for who they really are. I repeate everyone, NO one deserves to be abused.
The old compensation is fairer to new member. You can earn $7 for 1st level, $4 for 2nd level and $2 for 3rd level. It is so transparent.
My business is free as i have $80 per month due to the earnings from the different levels. But now, I believe i will have to forge out money for the monthly subcription.
I will complain if that really happens after the migration.
Pray God the Management are not a bunch of greedy toads.
Finding and keeping people is the main difficulty in MLM. And only because theoretically, you can make money on many people who are under you, that does not mean that you ever will find that many, or that you should realistically expect that.
But why is the new plan any worse? Before, filling a tree or two was too much for most people. Now, finding over 8000 people through the combined efforts of many people is hard. But since both goals were very hard and nearly impossible for most people, I don’t see why the new plan is any worse.
In both cases, the maximum you can make is something you will never make, and you signed up in order to try to accomplish as much as you can, knowing that you’ll never make the maximum. Even, I would say, having a potential maximum that is higher is an improvement (in theory, because it’s hard to get close). So why is it worse now?
And I don’t get it. If I managed to break out of this emotional dependency, what would I have instead? Perhaps the same kind of dependency to some other company? A feeling of emptiness and of having no worthy purpose in life?
I used to be ambitious, almost ruthlessly so. I worked hard to put myself through university while supporting myself and lost my long-term relationship for having worked really hard in order to have a career, and I did not have children. Actually, even worse, I had an abortion when I was young and poor, and sometimes I think that if I did not, my life would be different and I would have that child to love me, even if it would have been hard to support it earlier in life. I was working long hours and became nearly unavailable while also gaining weight, which contributed to the loss of my relationship.
Now, I no longer have that kind of challenge in my life even though I’m still working and my life was getting more comfortable but boring and lonely when I found Nutronix and their programs. If I got out of this, I would be bored and with no challenge and purpose in my life, and perhaps some other money-grubbing or addictive occupation would come along at some point.
I seem to have a need to be addicted to something, although it was never to the point of losing control, at least in terms of being able to afford the consequences such as the expenses. I had a short period when I was buying lottery tickets. I used to shop online a lot. But that was after I finished my studies, so I suppose it was my way to get the satisfaction I was no longer getting when I was busy accomplishing the worthy goal of finishing university. It might as well be Nutronix than something else, since if it’s not one addiction, it’s another one. At least, I was not addicted to drugs, and I can afford the consequences of my behaviour, such as my expenses. And of course, my basic expenses such as rent are always paid before I lose, spend or waste any money.
Oh, and in case you think I should try not to be addicted to anything (I heard antidepressants can do that) or to Nutronix in particular, my question is what for? What motivates the addict to get rid of addiction is the serious consequences such as jail, getting fired, the consequences of drugs or alcohol on the body, the risk of death, the need to stop stealing or getting into debt, family pressures, and so on. But on Nutronix, I’m only spending the money (money earned by me) I have after my expenses I paid or getting a little bit of debt, but nothing huge that would scare me or ruin my credit. I’m not missing work, I’m not stealing, I’m not going to jail, I’m not divorcing (perhaps for the good reason that I’m not married), and so on. So I have no reason to stop. At most, I may want to try to keep my expenses within the limits of what I can afford each month in order to avoid debt. I was losing more when I was just shopping online.
Monica
After reading this all I can say is whatever you chose to do in your life I wish you the best. I hope you have great success in whatever venture you get involved in, if it be Nutronix, The Berry Tree or some other MLM company.
By Nutronix, of course I mean the Berry Tree, too. But in your opinion, since you can see that I’m likely to be very patient, how long will it take until I actually make some money? How much will I make by next year? Two years from now?
Also, if I don’t eat less and exercise more, will I really lose weight by taking regularly the Nutronix products called EZ Lean XL (during the day) and NuBurn PM at bedtime? How much will I lose by next year if I’m rather sedentary but I keep taking that?
And you did not actually explain why this plan is worse. Under both systems, it was possible in theory, but very hard in reality, to make money on many people under you. Why is it worse now?
Monica,
You definately seem to have the attitude that will eventually make you successful. However, do yourself a favor and take 1/2 of the money you are currently spending on MLM and put it into legitimate investment vehicles and do it weekly, bi-weekly etc. Expose yourself to agriculture, oil, metals, etc. I buy silver bullion every week and small amounts of gold when I can affoard it and when my wife isn’t paying attention to the check book. Retribution spending on her part is killer, so I keep the gold in check most of the time. But silver is cheap and easy to accumulate. It is going to be worth more than mlm when our government can no longer pay its bills in another 20 yrs as Social Security and Medicare become insolvent and foreign governments longer buy our debt because we have diluted our currency so much by merely printing more and more money that it may not be worth any more than the paper it is printed on at some point. Sorry about the run on sentence. My wife is a school teacher and doesn’t approve of my writing style. Anyway, you get my point. Diversification is important and you should consider mlm as a very high risk form of investment, almost like the lotto. If you hit it right the returns are very big, but the likelyhood of it happening is very small.
I can’t afford it, as the actual amounts I would be able to invest would not be very high and taxes would eat that up. What would I get for investing a hundred or two? That added to my MLM expenses would be too much, whereas, now, I can afford to throw away money.
Being from Canada and Nutronix being in the States, I was not going to declare my income from MLM, nor was I an employee who would be forced into paying the taxes.
I can tell you that without being afraid of getting caught because I do pay taxes on my salary and at this time, I am not hiding MLM income, as there is no such income. I’m losing money and presumably, I would even be advantaged if I declared what I’m doing to tax autorities because I would claim a loss.
I’m actually attracted to businesses that have a slightly shady aspect provided that thee is a chance I may actually make money or hide it from the taxman. I was about to lose $200 in a scam called International Partner Brokerage, but it just happened that it was about to be dismantled and the envelope containing my first payment came right back to me. If I were to invest, it would be in some other unconventional business that for some reason seemed worth taking the risk. I actually bought a $50 share in something like that. The business used to email updates (I’m not sure if it even exists now), but I never make any money.
Slight dishonesty such as advising people to join a program that is losing money actually gives me a thrill. The thrill of doing something wrong and getting away with it without doing something way worse or that will lend me in jail. I would do it if I knew for sure that it won’t work. But when there is a chance that it may work later if only people were more patient, I see no problem promoting something like that.
They have just annonced that there is the Berry Tree for YouTube. I don’t know if that’s a coincidence, but I suggested something like that when they announced some new service (Go To Meeting) that I did not consider useful, as to have presentations, one needs interested people. But a promotional video, yes, and they may well have taken my advice.
Monica,
I have no idea how long it will take you to make any amount of money. Nor do I have any idea how much weight you can lose by only taking the products. If you go out and run 3 to 5 miles a day, 3 or 4 times a week you can eat 5 gallons of ice cream every day and still lose weight. I do know that. The reason this plan is not as good as the other has been explained by 3 different people already. Anyway as I said before good luck I wish you the best.
Apparently, there is supposed to be no sound at the maintrainingroom on Saturdays, but there is on Tuesdays.
Right now, there is a call there, where they are finally announcing the new Berry Tree product (Berry Boost) that we should be able to order instead of the other one if we want (from the Berry Tree back office). It may be available tonight or tomorrow.
Wow. I came on this site trying to do a little research on Berry Tree before signing up. I’ve been reading for hours and sometimes wondering if this if for real (Monica). Richard, I would very much appreciate an email from you. You have some very interesting things to say and seem to have a really good understanding of the whole program. Send me an email @ whisperingwillow@hughes.net so I can reply and ask you some questions. Good reading guys.
I’m for real. I’m going to email you, too!
Dear Monica and Richard,
After the new plan, I am on the verge of bailing on BT and Nutronix. It does appear like a very tough road to make any money.
Have you officially decided to bail?
I need some new ideas..I wasted alot on BT and Nutronix.
Email me hwest1@gmail.com.
thanks
Me? On the contrary, I was going to ask Richard to tell me what are those sites that are good for advertising. I’ll never drop out. Remember: it now takes only 20 months to get to Silver and 40 to get to Gold if you are participating both in the Berry Tree and in Nutronix/Automatic Builder. And I’m a Senior Advantage Member. And I developed an interest in the Nutronix calls. At the beginning, I was not listening. Now, I love them! I still don’t listent to all of them (for example, I’m not listening to those about Atria), but I’ll try to listen more.
Also, as I have mentioned, now, you can order the new Berry Tree product instead of the one that some people said that is like salt water. I can’t wait to see the new one! And new members get the Automatic Builder site, which makes it easier to convince them to pay for that.
There are also some prizes for those who manage to recruit full members during the month, and for members who buy the Senior package which.
I just love the new changes! I’m not sure if it is true that the compensation plan is worse in some respects, but I was not making money before either.
And those of you who quit or are considering quitting, or who never signed up, forget something. In business, making money is not easy, and this business opportunity may not be as easy as you thought. Or pay as much as you thought in the short term.
However, 20 months from now, commissions may be much higher, and it is people who quit who are pushing them down. In twenty months (or less, if you are already in the program), you could be at the Silver level (if you are both in the Berry Tree and Automatic Builder/Nutronix) and by then, that may be worth the trouble even though it may not be now. There is plenty of time until then for things to get better.
I refuse to be a loser and a quitter. Fourteen months from now (it takes 20 but I already have 6), I’ll be at Silver and thirty-fourmonths from now (14 + 20), I’ll be at Gold. Those of you who quit or don’t sign up won’t be anywhere and are only making it worse for people who are serious enough to wait the time it takes instead of looking for a quick buck.
There is no free lunch and no quick buck. Anything worth having requires time, work and patience. Those of you who got a degree, for example, know how it feels to invest a few years into it, and to actually expect it to take that long. Why don’t enough people have that kind of patience in this wonderful business?
Hello Monica,
You need to everyone that everyone may not have $200.00 a month to put into a program for 20 months and hope that they get good returns for there money.
Quote “In business, making money is not easy, and this business opportunity may not be as easy as you thought. Or pay as much as you thought in the short term.”
The Berry Tree promotes that you will make money by not doing anything so why should anyone expect anything different? And they are the ones that sent out emails telling the members what the pools would pay and you say that it did not pay what we thought it might. I didn’t think anything, I was told by the head people what it would pay and expected to receive that amount, and who wouldn’t? If you were hired on at a job and was told that you would make $1,000.00 per week and when you got your check and it was only $250.00 would you just stay there and continue working and hope that your boss would eventually pay you what he said he would?
As for fixing things, their batting average is zero right now. I will wait and see what they do before I start throwing money at it again.
As for being a quitter or a loser; No one is a loser for getting out of a business ( this business or any business) where they are losing money. My prediction for the BT is that when the June commissions are ran the bronze pool will pay around $80.00 to $100.00 because of the added money to that pool. The next several months it will probably go up even more because of all of the people getting new members in due to the new matrix, After several months the new members will start dropping out because they will not be making any money. So the bronze pool will start going down again. This new matrix does not allow passive members to make any money. The best that they can ever hope for is making $12.00 a month from the matrix because levels 1 and 2 do not pay anything at all, they will get $1.50 for the next 8 people ($12.00) levels 4 and 5 do not pay anything and level 6 will only pay if they sponsor someone. So by being passive all they can make is $12.00 from the matrix. So do you really think that members are going to stay in this program for 20 months to get to the bronze pool in hoping that they will make some money. If the bronze pool goes down and it gets to $60 or even $70 why would anyone keep forking out $55 a month in hopes of getting $70 a month 20 months down the road. Thats not being a loser or a quitter that is being smart.
Sorry the 1st sentence should say You need to understand that everyone may not have
Interesting thread. As for me I have been in profit in Nutronix since my second month and in the berry tree since it’s inception. I work, work, work at both though. Basic economics is, if you’re in profit, why would you quit? I rent a property for a $75.00 per month profit, should I kick out the renters…NO!
I still need to study the new comp plan in depth before I can speak smart on it. I will do that soon.
For anyone that may be looking for another good MLM the only way to find one that fits you is to conduct unbiased research on the industry itself and how to pick a company. The place to do this is:
http://www.trustedmlm.com
If you spend about 2-3 hours going through the information there, you will be solid.
Anyone can contact me directly if they like: 520-226-0349
wealthbrigade@gmail.com
I’m sorry, but what kind of businessman/businesswoman does not even have $200 per month? I myself said that I found that expensive before I got my raise, but I did have the money. It takes money to make money, and this is no exception. And please, Richard, post, or email to me, that advertising information. I want to work on my future, not to be a loser just to save a little bit of money in the immediate term.
If the company said things about how much money is to be made, that does not necessarily mean that they promised that this is how things were going to turn out. If too many people were losers and dropped out or did not sign up, the company was not going to go out of business by paying existing members more than the company could afford. And there was no promise to do so even if things don’t turn out as planned. It stands to reason that if commissions were higher, that was only if some expectations such as the number of members or the volume of business, were met. The people who are dropping out are the ones to blame.
That being said, many of the allegations on how much we were going to make or how easy it was going to be did not come from the company but from individual members who were/are trying to recruit others.
In business, losing money temporarily, on certain deals, or on certain items, is just normal. I feel sorry for (and angry at) the losers who are dropping out just because the Berry Tree takes some time, or who cannot even afford the fees (and are not trying harder to cut somewhere else in order to be able to pay). They are the ones who are making everybody else lose by pushing commission levels down and by creating the conditions that lead other people to leave.
This is not smart. The smart people are those who can wait the time it takes to reap the rewards. Even if it takes 10 months at about $200 per month in fees to get to Bronze, and 20 months to get to Silver. And the poor losers without the 200 could at least pay just for the Berry Tree for 20 months to get to Bronze in 20 months instead of 10. There is no excuse other than a loser mentality not to do that. There are ways to get there for everybody except for the poor losers who cannot even pay the $55.95.
Good luck,
You have Monica
But, Richard, where are those places that are good for advertising?
Monica, send me an email and I can give you some advertising links. Only free ones though. I recommend not spending money on advertising but only on a reputable trusted lead source or newspaper ads. wealthbrigade@gmail.com
Thanks, I’ll try that, too, but Richard was saying earlier that he knew some links, so I’m very curious what Richard says.
I would recommend that you follow Doug’s advice. All of the advertising that I did was expensive. None of it was free.
Tell me anyway. I don’t have to buy it. Even, one of the tools Doug recommended was not free and I did not want to buy it precisely because I did not want to spend the money at this time. But since I do buy advertising from time to time, next time, it might at least be something that works. I’m also kind of curious.
As for expensive, I don’t know what you mean. I paid over 600 for the Berry Tree sign ups (two sets), which explains why I didn’t want to spend even more immediately. Not that I would necessarily pay for other things if they were that expensive. I may be a spendthrift, but there are way too many opportunities to spend, so I don’t really take them all.
Oh, and one reason for my curiosity is that it may just happen that other people have been spending money at, and are recommending, some of the same places where I have been spending money myself.
Hello Monica,
I just want to give out a friendly warning to you. I’m seeing references that are nearly identical to a common false dichotomy trap that was prominent in the ancient MLM days, specifically with Amway: “WINNERS join, stay and build the Berry Tree; LOSERS don’t!”
I think at this point it’d be wise to quote Rich DeVos in 1983 when he addressed this growing problem to his own organization:
“And now we’re dividing people up. ‘Winners go to the meetings; Looosers stay home.’ Can you help me to end all this? There are no losers in Amway. Yes, there are those who choose not to do it, but who are you to call someone else a “loser”? Who are you tell a truck driver that would rather spend time getting paid to drive his truck that he’s a “loser”? Who gave you a license to brand people? I stand in awe of all people…and I hope you do too.”
(Rich DeVos, Directly Speaking II; 1983)
That may qualify as a “rough quote,” since I’m attempting to copy it down from memorization. But I believe it’s quite accurate.
Now, I’ll avoid the giant history lesson, which would essentially include an extensive explanation about all the emotional drivel that replaced intelligent, professional business arguments with that specific company long ago. But it is only both fair and honest to say that I’m seeing too many conclusions based on emotions; not sound business principles. And that isn’t to say that any you are completely wrong; but that some given rhetoric emphasizes false conclusions. I’ll not trying to nag or pick at anyone in particular, but just as an example:
Quote by Monica-
“I’m sorry, but what kind of businessman/businesswoman does not even have $200 per month?”
You should not even begin to assume that the Berry Tree or even Nutronix in general is only designed for “businessmen/women.” In my experience, MLM models are not even targeted toward businessmen. In fact, the vast majority of people that become involved with MLM programs are people who specialize in many other professions. Most solid and experienced individuals in the field of business who aspire in salesmanship would take jobs with direct selling and immediate commission; they wouldn’t even consider MLM because of the stability and attrition factors. Of course this isn’t to conclude that MLM is a “bad idea” for business professionals, or that some business people aren’t attracted by MLM rewards. However, we most certainly cannot conclude that all Berry Tree or Nutronix members qualify as individuals proficient in the field of business. In fact, the evidence points the other way.
With that said, please take note that I don’t mind if anyone wants to draw their own conclusions; just be careful with unsupported conclusions.
Thanks,
- Ryan
Amway is totally different, because apparently, it tends to take over people’s lives (if they comply, of course) by making them “show the plan” a lot, organizing coffee meetings, week-end events, driving them around with leaders who are coaching them, etc. Some events were/are actually called “family reunions”. And people would buy all kinds of “training” books and tapes.
Nutronix and the Berry Tree are not like that. We do have all kinds of information, marketing tools, phone/Internet conferences, etc., but nobody is bothering people who choose to participate less and taking over their lives. Some people may coach and encourage their downline members more than others, but by no means like Amway.
Most people involved in MLM have other occupations, but to the extent that they are involved in MLM, they become businessmen and businesswomen as well. I don’t care if they are janitors at their regular jobs. If and when they do things related to any part-time, home or online business, they are in business and they should think like business owners and managers.
We can certainly agree that the Amway promotional methodologies compared to Nutronix are as different as apples and oranges. One is New-Age; the other is archaic. However, Amway’s reputation and exponential growth effect only began to cease once greed began to set in the hearts of the kingpins; in which lies, deceit, and primary profits from the sales of tools over emphasis of the product line spread like wildfire. As DeVos so eloquently put, “the tremendous burden of systems.” Based on recent Berry Tree results, can anyone here claim that a growing, similar problem within our own nucleus is impossible? If so, I certainly haven’t read one good argument. However, I have noticed that people such as Richard and the Red honor have some interesting discussions that point the opposite way. And I say this with a neutral head on my shoulders.
Quote by Monica-
“If and when they do things related to any part-time, home or online business, they are in business and they should think like business owners and managers.”
Agreed.
- Ryan
Hello,
Quote
“If and when they do things related to any part-time, home or online business, they are in business and they should think like business owners and managers.” Monica I can not agree with you more. Just make sure that the standards that you have set for the The Business Owners just coming in are the same for all of the Business Owners that are in the business regardless of where they are at in the Business. Most of the people that come into an MLM business do not make very much money so they are looking for a way to improve their lives, They do not want to be “losers”. The most important people in your business are your downline. Your very success depends on the “losers” that are placed under you. You will need to learn how to convert the “losers” to winners. The things that are promised must be kept or the “losers” will leave. At some point you will realize this because if you don’t you will start swimming in the same pool as the “losers” that you are referring to.
Why can’t they just stay? I can afford my monthly fees and autoship, so the worst that could happen (other than the programs being cancelled or the company going under) is that I’ll keep doing that forever and never make money.
The problem is not that people actually want to be losers. It’s just that they are not committed enough to stay and keep paying, even if it takes a long time. If many people did just that long enough and found a few people like that, even with the new plan, eventually, some money worth having would go to us ordinary members.
Hi Monica,
There always be two sides to the coin… One with praise or one with despair.. I always choose to stay positive when times ever get tough. I tell folks when joining any business never to always think you get on the ship and it will sail without any storms when trying to get to your port destination.
People who think life in general and business will be a smooth sail are already setting themself up to fail and become one of the 90-97%ers who will not succeed.
The way to get a team rolling is to teach them to first overcome their issues and develop a core mindset that working from home really does work. I plug people into http://www.danijohnson.com if they do not under go her training I can’t work with them to help them anymore if they are not willing to want change for their lives…
Business being the CEO means we pick and choose who to bring in our team. It is up to us to get the right people on board so we do not bruise ourselves. Many folks fall into the trap of getting the wrong people in. For example even though I’m paying everybody’s autoship each month unfortunately I will have to turn a lot away simply because they have to prove to our elite leadership team they want to change their life. The rewards for doing so means a huge lift to help them reach their goals faster.
Positive thoughts lead to big things…
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Hey Ronnie,
Thanks for the recommendation.
I just wanted to state that I would also recommmend ” http://www.danijohnson.com ” for anyone involved with any MLM or direct selling company. She has provided several hours of free training available on her main website, and the content is worth the time spent.
- Ryan
Monica,
There are hundreds of reasons that people quit. To many for me to list. I am glad that you have the finances to keep going. I am still in the Berry Tree but no longer advertising it. In about 4 to 6 months I may start again depending on how the new plan plays out. I have kids in school and can no longer afford to keep pouring money into advertising. I wish you the best and hope that all works out.
Is Click Voyager any good? Because I have bought two million credits there and earned one hundred thousand (fifty thousand twice). So if you can’t afford advertising, maybe you can do that. Prices vary, because it is other members, not Click Voyager, who’s selling the credits. I paid $20 for one million credits and 17 for the other million. As for the “bribes” from other members, one was just for signing up for bux.to, and the other was for signing up for trafficera AND earning some credits there.
It takes 10 credits to show a site once, so one million only means one hundred thousand, although the rate is better for showing banners and I put some up, too.
You can earn your million credits if you want (by clicking), but it would take forever.
I’ve never personally used Click Voyager, but please let us know about your experience in the future. I’d be very interested to hear about it.
I know that if you haven’t already investigated TS25 (Traffic Syndicate 25), you may want to strongly consider taking a look. Very reputable, quality traffic and credits per site view is only 5:1 as opposed to 10:1; unless of course you decide to upgrade your account, in which it could even be 2:1 or 1:1.
- Ryan
I have pro accounts at moneytrafficexchange, the webstars2k traffic exchange and a few other sites (not traffic exchanges) owned by the same person. I put it that way because I don’t want to sound like I’m promoting them. And one million banners advertised within their network, plus some banners that come from moneytrafficexchange but are shown on other sites, too. They also have a site that is sending advertising to blogs and those ads are indexed on search engines, plus safelists where you can send emails. One or two actually have a very interesting concept: you can only email those who signed up after you. I also have first-page advertising (showing my site or one of the sites belonging to some other advertiser as the first page after you log in) on 2 of her sites.
Are these any good? I have been paying that woman quite often because even though it may not seem like much, $27 here, 37 there, and so on (for pro membership or advertising) eventually adds up.
And sorry if you find that off topic, but I can’t help it. How can people get a million credits available for sale when even a thousand or two requires a lot of work and I never managed to get enough? I can picture some poor guys in China (the 2 sellers had Asian names) clicking all day long for several weeks just to make $20.
I do not know anything about those types of advertising. I did email marketing which was very effective. You can get anywhere from 20 to 100 people a day to your website. You new a good email to send and an excellent subject line. The people that you market to will not open the email unless you have a catchy subject line. That is the single most important thing that you must have. Next you need a rotator to count your visits to your website. That way you can keep track of how well your subject line and emails are working. Rotators can be free or up to $25.00 per month. You will also need a capture page. The AB site for Nutronix will work but it really needs to be updated. I think it is around 4 years old. Not sure but I heard that AB will also be setting up a site for the BT similar to the AB for Nutronix. If so this will work. Then you need a mailer (autoresponder) that you can import your own leads, this is hard to find. I know of 3 but they each have there own problems. Then the next thing is leads, A good lead source is also very hard to find. I did manage to find a decent one and stuck with him. The more leads you can send out the better the chances of success. I was sending out from 100,000 to 250,000 co-reg leads a day. About half would go to Nutronix and the other half would go to The BT.
I also had found a fellow that had a system where he was sending out 1000 very high quality leads to each of the sites 6 days a week. This was $400.00 a month. He had different programs if you wanted less leads for different prices. I used this for our team coop and was doing well with it. I did run into a few people that were not happy with how fast the leg was growing and did not want to kick in the monthly cost anymore. It goes back to making money within the 1st month or 2 and if they weren’t in profit then they were unhappy. I could not afford to keep paying for all of it on my own so I had to start dropping some of it. Then as the advertising lessened even more were unhappy. When the Feb commissions were ran and all of the pools were so far off from the company projections it became more difficult as the company lost a lot of face with all of the newer members. From my experience I thought we were doing very well. From the team advertising we brought in around 30 people into Nutronix as Jr, Ex, or Sr Ex in about 2 and 1/2 months plus close to 50 into the BT. A lot of the 50 were Free trial members and most never upgraded. We also have around 35 to 40 free trial members in Nutronix that we were getting 10 cv a month from. The downline had around 110 to 120 people in it counting the upgrades, the free trial members and the people that had Nutronix websites from joining the Berry Tree. I feel today and will always feel that the company owes an explanation as to why they were so far off from there projections of the pools.
But how did those people manage to earn a million credits or more at Click Voyager? Did they make that their full-time job for a while just to learn $20 for their efforts? Really, how are they doing it?
“I feel today and will always feel that the company owes an explanation as to why they were so far off from there projections of the pools.”
And i completely agree but we’ll never get an explanation, or at least a full honest one. Majority of members keep paying their autoship and refuse to demand answers to the tough questions like good lil robots. why would the company kingpins bother explaining anything to foolish loyalty like that?
Their projections were inaccurate because not enough people signed up and remained in the program. It’s hard to predict how many would do so. If they could have guessed the pool levels, it would have been against the interest of the company as a whole and the other members to make that information public, because it would have further discouraged potential members. They couldn’t say “come sign up for very low commissions that may not even cover your fees”, could they?
“Their projections were inaccurate because not enough people signed up and remained in the program. It’s hard to predict how many would do so. If they could have guessed the pool levels, it would have been against the interest of the company as a whole and the other members to make that information public, because it would have further discouraged potential members.”
okay, Monica. so your justification is that its fair to present unceasing hype and sugar coat everything to the point where only half of the truth is presented, even if that requires conscious deceit and lies, as long as it ‘encourages’ potential members? Its okay to give people false hope and hide the facts as long as it fully serves the interest of the company?
Monica……..do you even realize what you are saying? These words not only form an awful argument but they force me to question your ethics. I admit that i previously wrote you off as an oddball when you admitted that your primary reason for foolish mlm unquestions loyalty was due to your search to fill a void through the psychological cult aspects of these programs. But now i can’t honestly tell if youre just desperately trying to find some lil sliver of justification for the bt leaders tyranny or if business ethics really mean less than a pile of dung to you.
“They couldn’t say “come sign up for very low commissions that may not even cover your fees”, could they?”
Apparently they feel as if they can say whatever they want. They sure didn’t have to promise consistent bronze pools in the 100 to 150 dollar range starting this past feb,march when in fact they knew that such achievements were quite conditional and there was no evidence suggesting that bt membership would rise to the necessary levels. The average has been in the $50s. They sure didn’t have to emphasize a new amazing amount of spill starting january of this year and hype up their million dollar ad campaign. That was an outright lie as the only money the kingpins put forth was to design their own marketing plan in order to sell more overpriced leads to unsuspecting people like you and me.
Go ahead. please correct if me i’m wrong. And dont bother with another fallacious series of justifications. if you can’t tell already, those arent entertaining anyone.
If they exaggerated, it’s just an example of the “fake it till you make it” principle. By pretending that they had certain results, maybe they were going to actually get them soon. If that actually worked out, would you still feel that they did the wrong thing? You only feel that they told you unacceptable lies because things did not work out as planned.
This reminds me of something that is not related to business but that worked the same way, in a sense. In a novel, a woman was telling her priest that she wanted more children, but her husband was trying to prevent that. The priest advised her to say that she was pregnant. That way, the husband was going to stop “controlling himself” in bed and soon, she was going to be pregnant for real. The priest said that the lie was morally justified.
Sorry about that. The similarity was just too funny.
“By pretending that they had certain results, maybe they were going to actually get them soon. If that actually worked out, would you still feel that they did the wrong thing? You only feel that they told you unacceptable lies because things did not work out as planned.”
What difference does it matter if i had felt they were ‘wrong’ based on whether or not the results were turned in my favor? It WAS wrong. They lied! That’s the point. And because they lied and mislead their team many people lost money and grew very disappointed all while the kingpins continued to rake in the dough. You never ‘pretend’ that you have certain results unless you are either careless or selfish. It is true that businesses create budges and preditions but all of them are based on careful research. Your bt kingpins had the opportunity to invest their million into corp advertising and instead chose to take advantage of you with their pathetic bt leads: ‘we’re generating tons of free signups so we might as well sell them for $100 each and further blow up our banks.’ and assuming you believe that lies can be so easily ‘morally justified,’ i’d sure love to hear how you can justify-
1. What I listed earlier. how the phelps completely lied about the million dollar ad campaign
2. All the careless hype centered around big bonus pools and gobs of spillover that hardly turned into a fraction of their past promises
And no you can’t claim they simply ‘exaggerated.’ For #1, because they already have millions of dollars and did nothing. In other words a blatant lie. For #2, because you don’t have the data to support the argument, and it probably doesnt exist anyway.
“If they exaggerated, it’s just an example of the “fake it till you make it” principle.”
By the way LOL!! Boy does that bring back the ol ‘kick the brainwashed amway buffoons off my doorstep’ days. I would tend to call ‘fake it till you make it’ principles unethical but i think the description ‘pitiful’ gives a more accurate portrayal. Though i might add that anyone who believes ‘take it till you make it’ principles are moral and ethical is nothing more than a terrorist to the mlm industry.
You should have listened to today’s Saturday call. They are starting to explain all kinds of things, including some of the problems. For instance, now, they got guaranteed tour takers for the Berry Tree, too, and they have improved the conversion rate (percentage of leads who actually sign up). They are actually responding to some objections. For instance, they said that even though the Berry Tree used to pay for itself once there were 8 members in the downline and now you have to wait until you reach the 3rd level, it’s better now, because the 3rd level pays more.
The new Berry Boost is sold in individual packages. It will be available in bottles later, but now, it is not. Or, in order to maintain the price, they decided to only provide 15 packages instead of 30 in the Berry Tree autoship. We are allowed to buy more separately or market the product. They’ll have some links ending in bgboost for that.
Listen to the recording in case that answers some of your questions. It was a great call.
Monica please explain to me how this new plan pays more. The old plan paid for itself after your 1st branch was full. 8 people at $7.00 each = $56.00. This new plan has 2 people on the 1st branch and 4 people on the second branch which you will receive no pay for. That is $0. No money. The 3rd branch pays $3.00 each for the 8 members that are on that level if you have sponsored someone and $1.50 each if you have no one sponsored which is $12.00. So I ask again please help me out here and explain how I will be better off with $24.00 or $12.00 for 14 members than I would be with $56.00 for 8 members. In fact in the old system for 14 members I would be making $80.00 for 14 members. $4.00 each for the other 6 members. I have never been to Canada but where I live $80.00 is more than $24.00.
“For instance, they said that even though the Berry Tree used to pay for itself once there were 8 members in the downline and now you have to wait until you reach the 3rd level, it’s better now, because the 3rd level pays more.”
And to no one’s surprise you took their word for it instead of completing the simple math to check and test their claims.
just as Richard said I’d love to hear your explanation on this one lol!
You may want to listen to the recorded call in case I misunderstood. Because I think they said that if you recruit more than 2 people, you get 2 under you. Then, the next 2 recruited by you get placed under THEM, not under you. And so on. Naturally, if you have not recruited, the 2 people under you may come from your upline who did recruit.
They are considering a different plan for the first 15 levels, but I don’t know what they’ll do. You may say that those are the owners and their friends, but then, it is true that at the first few levels, they don’t have lots of people above them like the rest of us and that could be a disadvantage.
The new matrix will be shown to us only after the June 20 commissions even though it starts June 1st.
Oh, and they actually said that this new structure is just for the Berry Tree, not for the Nutronix matrix.
If after 20 Jun, i get less or the same no. of downlines than my existing no. of downlines, then the whole revamp is a gimmick. That is, to pay less.
But if after 20 Jun, the no. of downlines under my business organisation increase by a few folds, i will give the new scheme a thumb up.
Let’s wait and see. The call is lousy as the top people are not familiar with details too.
I don’t think so. Commissions were low or very low, so for sure, the company wouldn’t want to make them even lower and lose all the remaining members. Also, they are calculating commissions in different ways and have other bonuses, such as for having recruited during the month. And I would not jump to conclusions after just a month or two. Eventually, by the time I get enough Berry Member Credits to reach silver or gold (the duration has been reduced), this may actually work quite well.
“But if after 20 Jun, the no. of downlines under my business organisation increase by a few folds, i will give the new scheme a thumb up.
Let’s wait and see. The call is lousy as the top people are not familiar with details too.”
LOL!
I love, I JUST LOVE your choice of words there. “SCHEME”
And good point on the 2nd note b/c the top people must be especially confused if they’re really telling people that 14 recruits yielding $24 is better than $80.
Welcome to our little bt dinner table, smartrader. Stick around, you a funny man!
They took questions at the end of the call. Why don’t you ask that question next time (politely, of course)? That is, the question why 14 recruits yielding $24 is better than $80. Try to sound like someone who just doesn’t know, not like someone who is actually criticizing them. They actually said we’ll make thousands of dollars at level 3, so you may want to include that in your question.
Even if you want to know more, try to ask something specific, or else they’ll just talk about how great the plan is supposed to be. For instance, ask about the 14 recruits and $24 and $80 instead of asking why the new plan is better.
All you have to do is go to the comp plan and you can just look at it. You don’t need a calculator, pen and paper, or even know how to add. It is right on the chart, it says level 3 maximum pay out $24.00.
Yes, but the company says that the new plan is better and that we’ll make thousands of dollars. Ask them anyway. You have nothing to lose.
Are you saying that they already have another new plan? I thought that this was the new plan. Please don’t tell me that this plan only lasted 3 minutes after 6 months of planning.
It’s the same plan, but certain things may have to be worked out, or maybe we didn’t understand or they did not explain that properly. So let’s ask some very specific and relevant questions such as how will we make thousands of dollars at level 3 if the chart says that the level 3 maximum payout is $24. Or why 14 recruits yielding $24 is better than $80. That kind of thing.
You guys do realize that the level 3 they are talking about is not personally sponsored people. This means that when your up line places these people under you, which is called spill over you will make 24 dollars on level three for being a passive member.
Hello James and welcome aboard,
The 3rd level (and the whole Berry Tree) can be people that you sponsor or from spillover either one. Go look at the chart. If you sponsor someone you get the $24.00 if in fact you do not sponsor anyone you only get $12.00. As a matter of fact $12.00 is all anyone that does not sponsor anyone can make from the matrix. When someone is passive they cannot make anything from any of the levels that pay after level 3. Level six you must have at least one personally sponsored person, level 9 you need at least 2 and level 12 you need at least 3. But I know the bronze pool awaits. According to Monica they are still working on this thing so I guess we will wait and see. And James please stick around.
Sponsoring just 2-3 people is not that much to ask, don’t you find?
Monica,
I knew you would respond with exactly what you did. I am not even going to waste my time trying to explain it to you for the 8th time. If you haven’t gotten it by now it ain’t going to happen.
Sorry, I’m just a weak female who’s not very good at math even though I was forced to study lots of it for my exams in my teens, up to a fairly advanced level, it is true. I was doing quite well until it became too abstract for me. Later, I got a degree in translation, so you can imagine I got rid of math and forgot whatever I knew. I can still do simple calculations such as adding and multiplying. Without a calculator, that is, with pen and paper. But I don’t understand the Berry Tree compensation plan. Please help.
1st of all it has nothing to do with math. It all has to do with morals, ethics, and common sense. How many times do you get hit in the head with a baseball bat before you start ducking.
I trust the company’s moral and ethics. For common sense, I don’t know, but hopefully, they are going to figure something out that actually works, if they haven’t already. Common sense can be an obstacle to innovation and entrepreneurship. For instance, it seems to make more sense at first to work for a boss than to open a business but then, that’s not where the big money is.
That question was asked by someone but avoided. I was in the conference room and can see it. With so many people asking questions, they took their own sweet time to beat about the bush.
If it was indeed a question and answer session, the answers must be helpful.
Wait till i am 3-Star Director, I will chair these Q & A more effectively.
By the way, can someone tell me who is the CEO and CFO of Berry Tree, Nutronix and AB ?
CEO = Chief Executive Officer
CFO = Chief Financial Officer
Hope to see the CEO chairs a AGM and answer to questions from stakeholders since the company is not listed in New York Stock Exchange.
If anyone going to the Aug Convention, please find out for me. Thanks.
If a question was not answered, you can try asking some other time. It’s not a waste of time, because even if they don’t answer, at least they know what questions people have.
Hello Smarter,
You can find out who the CEO and CFO are by calling the home office. How long have you been a member of the BT and Nutronix? Just wondering how long I will have to wait to see you chairing the meetings. I do not know anyone going to the convention. Do you grow tomatoes?
From the Nutronix website, it looks like one of the founders, Harrison “Chief” Nesbit, is “responsible for overseeing the financial direction of Nutronix International”. The other 2 members of the management team and key personnel listed there are John M. Moates, Founder, and Blair Bremner, Executive Vice President and Webmaster.
According to the Berry Tree site accessed through Automatic Builder (http://myberrytree.com/default/aboutus.html), AutomaticBuilder was founded by two brothers, Art and Rob Phelps. The Berry Tree was formed in the fall of 2006 by a Partnership between 2 Companies, AutomaticBuilder and Nutronix International. Emails from Automatic Builder have been signed together “for the Berry Tree Team” by “Art & Rob Phelps, Bob Bremner and Johnny Moates”.
Here are the promotions for the month of June http://berrybonus.com/. They talked about that on Thursday, but the call was supposed to start at 9 (I was not able to listen from the very beginning) and it was almost 10 PM when they started talking about that. So if you listen to the recording, you may be able to skip almost an hour of talk and still not miss this. We can also win a set of 100 Berry Tour Takers by signing up for the Berry Tree newsletter (http://www.theberrytree.com/lounge/news/newsletter.html).
Monica, thank you for the information. Richard, i do not grow tomatoes. I like to build castle in the air…that’s why i am in this business…
Hello Everyone,
Does anyone know when the new matrix will be available to look at? I thought that it was going to be shown yesterday. Thank you
By the end of next week, as they are “allowing a few days for everyone to review their May commissions before the restructuring is done in the live system” and “Once the restructure is done, the former matrix will no longer be available to review. They said that today in an email with the subject line “The New 2x Matrix and Compensation Plan”, which you have probably received.
They specifically said that “Again to reassure everyone, the new plan and 2x matrix structure will be in place for June commissions paid July 20th.”
Now that you have had a look at the new matrix lets have a little input. Do you like it or not?
Hello Everyone,
I guess the reason why no one has posted is that everyone is still stunned. Let’s see I had 15 people in my tree that I was making either $7 or $4 from and now I have 7 people that I am making $3 each for. I have had one person quit as soon as he saw the matrix. He didn’t qualify for any pools and it didn’t take him long to see that this is a disaster. I predicted earlier that for several months the bronze pool would pay a decent amount and then start dropping and I still stand by that prediction, only thing is I thought that it would stay at a fair amount for 4 or 5 months before it started dropping but now I think it will only be 2 or 3. Have a great day
Someone in my upline explained that:
“Only members on your third, sixth, ninth and 12th level represent a payout amount for you.
If you have no personal referrals, the most you can make from the matrix is $12 per month.
If you have 1 personally referred, you can make up to $108.
And if you have 2 PSs (personally sponsored members) you can make up to $1132.
And with 3 PSs, you can make up to $4312. That is on 12 levels.”
Also that “Because the matrix is now a 2×12, the trees will fill up much faster than they did with the old matrix. So even if you have none to few people in your tree, it will not remain that way for long.”
And that the goal amount for the bonus pool is “about $100 a month, but it will fluctuate up and down”.
That is all explained when you look at the Matrix. The real problem like you said is that you noted that with out any PS all you can make off of the matrix is $12.00 with no one sponsored. When you advertise that you can earn money without doing anything then tell someone that all they can make is $12.00 if you do not sponsor someone, you have in essence lied to them. I know you will say is it asking to much for someone to sponsor 1 or 2 people, well the answer is yes if you had them join with the belief that they would not have to. Oh I forgot you stated earlier that it’s OK for the company to do anything it has to. The answer is no if you inform them before they join. Anyway I do not see this as a winner. By the way I have 14 sponsored people right now but don’t believe very many of them will stay. We will see. I also believe that the bronze pool will be around $100 for a month or 2 but when it starts dropping it will keep dropping. Every month getting less and less and when it drops below $55 more people will quit.
Wait a minute. The $12 from the matrix is on top of bonus pool commissions. Therefore, passive members will make not $12, but $12 plus the bonus pool commission, which they can reach passively by just staying in the program long enough. And that is not counting the fact that, while passive, they may still end up with a downline from spillover, from the little recruiting/advertising work that they may do from time to time even though they are mostly passive, etc. I am actually buying advertising not for myself, but from my downline’s downline. That’s what smart people should be doing to avoid losing their downline.
That being said, I bought 3 sets of 25 guaranteed Berry Tour Takers for 3 different people, and only one of them got just one signup, and as a free trial only.
Also, it was my understanding that the guaranteed Berry Tree signups I bought for myself were supposed to give me personally sponsored members, not company enrolled, and Nutronix said that “at this time the system recognizes every type of lead signup as a CEM”.
OK Monica,
I understand that it is $12 plus the bonus pools but someone signing up now will take 20 months to reach the bonus pools being passive. At $55.95 a month plus now I understand that they want us to buy an automatic builder for the Berry Tree. Is that another $9.95 a month or is it $19.95 that I heard?
Quote “Also that “Because the matrix is now a 2×12, the trees will fill up much faster than they did with the old matrix. So even if you have none to few people in your tree, it will not remain that way for long.”
Please explain to me how this will fill up faster when the original BT took 584 people and this one takes over 8000?
Think about this if you had 8000 people in you downline from the original BT you would have over 14 trees filled making close to $19,000. In this system for the 8000 people you make $4300, thats over $14,000 difference, where is that money.
You bought 75 BT guaranteed tour takers and got 1 free trial signup, that’s a great deal for the Phelps, but not to good for you.
Anyway good luck, I am sure that your upline loves you. I know I would have liked having you in my downline. I sincerely hope that you do alright in the BT and Nutronix.
The $9.95 Automatic Builder site is offered for free for 30 days to free trial members. They don’t have to pay, but if they do, it’s part of the BNA Advantage program (www.bnaadvantage.com), which, among other advantages, allows them to qualify for bonus pool commissions sooner. Everybody should buy that upgrade. I’m a Senior Advantage Member.
Maybe the idea that the matrix fills up faster is based on the fact that it’s easier to have 2 people under a person than 8. Also, once there are 2 full members, the third, fourth, and so on, are placed (in the order of their signup date) under those two members and then under their own downline. For instance, if you had 8 members, you would now have two who have two people each under them, which makes 6, so the remaining 2 would be on the next level. And so on. Which is how some people could end up getting a downline that comes from above them.
Richard,
I agree with you. I’m now making less than I was before and I lost a person somehow in the shuffle.
I can see how it will work, but the main problem is the company having advertised that one could make money being passive. The whole thing wasn’t working with a bunch of passive members and it still won’t. As you said, as time goes on, the pools will be diluted.
I just believe we’re going to have to seek out real business builders. You can’t pitch this as passive because you won’t get members who stay and the ones who do will be disappointed. You have to treat this as a regular MLM or network marketing business.
Hello Susan,
The problem is that the websites promote this as a business that you can be passive and still earn an income. I can see that people can get spillover a little faster but what good is the spillover if no income is being made from it. People join and receive 2 or 3 people from spillover or company advertising, if they were making some money from those members they may be more apt to stay and possible promote the business. Receiving no income from the 1st 6 people just blows my mind, then to pay people $1.50 or $3.00 for working members for the next 8 people. At this point you have 14 members under you and making a whopping $24.00, then you get nothing for the next 48 members. You could possible have 62 members under you and only be making $24.00 from the matrix. I have to wonder what was the company thinking. It makes absolutely no sense to me to bring people in, place members under them and then not pay anyone for them.
I don’t see anything that will attract and keep people in this program. When people enroll I think that they will drop out faster with this matrix than with the old one. I had another person quit today. Been in for 6 months.
One more thing is the company ever going to advertise and start placing people in. Where are these people that they are bringing in by the thousands. I have heard of rumors that they are advertising but where are the people.
You cannot advertise it as passive and then tell the new members that you lied and if they want to make any money they will have to bring in members and they better bring them in fast so the 1st ones don’t quit.
Confession:
I’ve become so disappointed in this program and its “new designs” that I hadn’t even bothered to view my new matrix in the back-office…until tonight.
When I did, I saw exactly what I expected. All 5 people that I had personally sponsored were gone; each one dropped out. There are two spillover positions in my matrix; however, they are both inactive.
Like I said…I’m not disappointed at these findings. I expected it. My disappointment began several weeks earlier when I started to suspect that this organization reeked of greed and absurdity.
Let’s see just how greedy. The company convinced a lot of people to not cash in there Senior certificate and a lot of other people to buy one. What are they worth now? I would say nothing. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that you must reach level nine before you make any matrix money from being a BNA member. Level nine requires you to have 510 people in your matrix, (thats levels 1 thru 8 totals.) I will tell you right now very few members will ever achieve that level. The ones that will reach it are already there, the owners, the Phelps and Matt Yonan and a few more. But what is really astounding is that the next level of payouts is level 12. You will need 4,094 people in your tree ( levels 1 thru 11 totals) to reach level 12. In the 1st 14 months of the BT’s existence there was only 11,000 members (that was full and free trial combined), plus I want you to keep in mind that the 1st 3 or 4 thousand members came in from Nutronix as soon as it was put out. With that in mind there has not enough new members to fill 1 tree since it started. Please think about this, if all of the BT members can’t fill up one tree in 14 months how long will it take you by your self? I know you will be getting a lot of atta boys along the way. Try paying your electric bill with an atta boy. The owners knew this when this matrix was designed. They are at the top making 10 to 13 thousand dollars a month, not having to pay anyone for there senior certificates and convincing a lot of members what a great favor they just did for everyone. Now please go and buy these CEM’s that we got with your money and promised you that we would be placing them in your trees. Sorry that we reneged on that promise but we need more than what we are making so now we will sell you what you have already paid for. How many times has the company made promises that were not kept? Every change that has been made is to the owners advantage.
I’m noticing that most BT folders on popular money making discussion forums have nearly run silent. It’s no mystery to me.
I can’t even explain this new “payplan” to a wealthy individual or MLM industry veteran without watching their eyes twitch with a look of “…Are you serious..!?” and then dissolving into laughter. I can hardly help from myself from laughing with them; it’s THAT bad.
Thankfully, I have another venture that is going extremely well for me. I just feel sorry for those who are caught up in this web and yet don’t even realize they are currently stuck!
“Alas, the tide has come!” is a quote that comes to mind.
I’m doing very well in this company.. 23 people signed up in a single day check out this video to see what happens when you focus on positive energy and learn how to business the right way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f87Q3NZnMk8
Life is what we make of it we can choose focus on the positive or lean on the negative. I invite you to watch my 77 day challenge to start growing in leadership if I can add some value in your life I would be happy to help you if you need any assistance.
P.S- The Power of 2 x Matrix is amazing!
Ronnie Branch
‘Homeless Rebel”
OMG I can’t even begin to describe my anger!!!! A normal set-up with a passive income matrix completely destroyed all for what?? some stupid system that only pays you for every 3rd level! I got out and i’m taking my team with me. When you go from making $150 to 200 a month to a lousy $82 because of plan change its time to throw in the towels and move on. The only people talking good about this are the people who don’t seem to understand it or those at the top who benefit from the new impact. I think I will write a list of complaints to nutronix and maybe even start a petition against this movement. Anyone who wants in let me know soon.
* Mongol
Mr or mrs admin,
I like you’re articles but do you really still believe in these people and the plan?? Are you really going to stick by this and tell others that myths are replacing others disapointments??
* Mongol
Why complain and drop out? On the contrary, if making money is harder, we should recruit as many people as possible and if already in, stay. It is by being many, not fewer, that we may manage to make some money after all. The company is probably trying to encourage us to recruit more. And there must be a point where even under this plan, or any plan for that matter, this business becomes worthwile.
Instead of giving up, we should take the challenge and get there, even if it’s harder and we make less money. There should be SOME money to be made. The problem is that many people are not patient and hard-working enough. As soon as they realize the time and effort it takes to make money, they give up, making it worse for the others, too.
Ronnie,
Why is it that the Company mislead people , never advertised as promised, sold the few people that they finally started bringing in even though they already used our money to bring them in, promised pool pay outs that were never reached, and then changed the matrix to benefit the few at the top and when someone questions what is happening they are leaning on the negative? If you can by yourself bring in 23 people a day, maybe the company should pay you instead of the advertising that they are doing. I will say that 23 people a day for one person must be a record. When I was advertising I got 11 people in one week back in November and thought that was great. If you can do that everyday for a yr you will have surpassed what the entire company did in 14 months. I applaud you. Keep up the good work. Plus this is the slow time of the year. Best to you
Hi miss monica,
There are many mlms and other ways to make money. Why should I or anyone else spend time building a program with a lower rated comp plan? This really is a simple case. Would you rather build a company that offers you $1000 for your efforts or $2000 for the same amount of work? If anyone would really rather have the 1000 then stay right where you are and don’t complain. Just keep recruting like a good rep.
Like i said earlier the only people who are talking good or neutral about this company are those who are ignorant about the abundance of opportunity on the internet or those who were fortunate enough to get in a while back and are already earning 4 digits a month.
* Mongol
Hey ronnie brach,
Okay so you had one outstanding day of recruiting and got 23 people? wow, that is impressive. But I’m willing to bet that your 23 record day was just a special occasion with some promotion of who knows what. I’m willing to bet you don’t personally sponsor more than 2 people a day because if you had that kind of mlm knowledge you’d be with a better company with a better comp plan.
anyway if you’re ever in the mood to put your positive energy BS aside and care to answer richard’s questions i’d be open to it…
* The “ANGRY” Mongol…Rrrrrr
QUOTE by Arthur:
That article was written nearly 6 months ago. This was way before we even suspected that the founders were planning to completely redesign the entire payment structure of the BerryTree.
Had I known at that point in time what I do know now, this article wouldn’t even exist. In fact, the entire blog probably wouldn’t even be here. Soon enough, a time will come to close shop or pass it on to someone responsible. I haven’t decided yet. It stays open now to allow these current discussions to resume.
- Ryan
I think that once I made a certain investment, making $1000 would indeed make more sense than giving up and losing the investment, by which I mean both the money and the work done, in the hope of making $2000 some other way, if that new way even works. It makes more sense to make the $1000 and then see if it is a good idea to add some other business on top of that, not instead. And if some other business promises more money, that does not necessarily mean that it will actually work. In fact, if it promises too much, it may be a scam.
The key is patience. If those who got in early are making good money, that means that we, too, will some day be high above many other people, and will be seen as having been with the company for a long time. It’s just a matter of waiting the time it takes. Many people have a hard time grasping that concept.
Hello Richard,
I will be sending you an e-mail through the “usual” address.
Look for it soon
- Ryan
Richard the best way to answer your question is like this. Basically to my knowledge there are no other MLM company’s that are doing what the Berry Tree does since it has a patent on their pay plan.
That being said, You speak as if it will be a smooth sail just like a ship going to another port and never expecting obstacles or rainy days.
Being the CEO of your own business this type of mindset also knows when your business inventing something no other MLM company to date is doing what berry tree is doing . So naturally there will be challenges.
The key with the challenges is the management team and how they handle them to the benefit of you being the distributor. In the end I feel this company will be going places and I say this based on their past experiences with the challenges in the early days of their matrix in nutronix ages ago. They managed to succeed with Automatic builder & Nutronix and many went off to grow a very big business. Many company’s never make it to their 5th year in business in fact probably 90% do not make it to their 2nd year and among the 10% probably 90% fail to see their 5th year.
So what does this tell you? It tells you with the right management the berry tree will be going places. I see it all the time many start up company’s with no real experience and management you don’t have to believe me just look at statistics I mentioned above.
in other MLM’s literally you have to follow this phase
1. Autoship $100-$200 or more month
2. Advertise with your money
3. Signup people – Thus gamble yourmoney
4. Grow your leadership & teach your team to do same
5. Hope your members never quit
With berry tree it goes like this
1. Autoship $160-$175
2. You decide not to gamble and advertise
3. next month you get a credit
So my question to folks is do you enjoy gambling your money in different MLM’s? What MLM is rising you through their pay plan and allowing the little guy to one day earn from the entire company?
You have to understand this type of business model will attract passive lazy mindsets just being frank. The new plan will go along way to ensuring the berry tree grows healthy.
Blair owner of nutronix was in a old MLM company in the late 80’s and got 40 reps in with a 2 x matrix and it grew to 200,000 people on his team..
This inspired the new plan into the Berry tree along with fresh new enhancements.
My question to you is do you want to be there when this company has 100,000 members and get a cut of the action?
In other MLM’s top income earners may show a check for $50,000 they made from their team. My question is what does that do for your check? Nothing of course, now take the same situation put it in Berry tree.
If a top income earner showed a check for $50,000 he made in berry tree and your response would be that’s great because your getting a cut of it earning from the entire company.
Anybody taking a serious look at this business understand that you hear these remarks from people who have not taken upon themselves to be pro active in building their million dollar business.
Usually it means they are not making much and your focus should not be about the money it has to be about serving others.
Zig Ziglar says you have to help enough people get what they want in order to get what you want. The conversation flow should be about helping others instead of bashing.
Don’t take my word for it go read the testimonials
http://www.berrytreenews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=64
It doesn’t matter what business you guys do you need to work on mindset and commit to personal development.
Focus on people not money… If you need money look into side passive income. Until you master focusing on people only then real wealth comes. I understood this in the beginning and this is how I reached 1 star in the company.
Wishing you Success!
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
http://www.youtube.com/ronniebranch
(77 Day Challenge for MLM Success)
Ryan you really didn’t do much brother and your loyalty isn’t strong enough I’m sorry to say and you took the passive approach for your side venture. You spent time focusing on what your making and less time on others and expecting a lot.
Where is the logic in that? I respect you and believe you’ll eventually find your way to success and you know I’m always your friend hope you can accept a little exchange in thoughts and debate on feelings without taking anything personal.
While I believe you did good in beginning but one has to stick it out past obstacles to make it. I see it time and time again most people get knocked out in first 4 or 5 rounds…
To succeed in any business one has to have the champion attitude and last 12 rounds… Being a little creative here…
The focus has to be what will I be making in this business with a honest effort of building in 12 months? I can almost bet you very few can run that course to tell that tale.
If you do then you need to call me because I hold strong respect for these people. Now I encourage everybody during these dark economy times to understand the berry tree can change your life if you put an honest effort in your business.
While yes, It is true you will grow in the comp plan for being passive but consider that as a bonus and not your full game.
If your relying on that alone you probably just need to quit the business because you never will be wildly successful in anything until you commit to personal development and work on mindset and grow in marketing knowledge.
I’m being frank and blunt here but I’m speaking the truth. I wont waste your time…
I’m cheering on all the folks who take what I say and make it happen for themself.
God Bless,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Hello,
I feel that I am I very honest and upfront person. I joined the BT in May of last year and became very active in the business. I was at the Nutronix and Berry Tree convention last year in Orlando Florida and met a lot of great people. I spent a lot of time and money advertising the business. I passed on to new members and prospects the information that was given to me from my upline and the home office about the advertising campaigns and comp plans. I brought a lot of people into the business by telling them what the company was doing and the amount of money that they could be making by reaching different levels in the business. I was told by Matt Yonan at the convention that the projection of the BT pools starting in Jan. of 2008 would be as follows, the bronze pool would be at the $120.00 to $150.00 range because of the new requirements for the Nutronix members and the combined pools of the bronze, silver and gold would be from $2,100.00 to $2,300.00.
I received an email from the upline that came from the home office that the crossover bonus pools would be as follows, the regional $660.00, the national was around $550.00 and the International would be over $700.00 bringing the combined pools to just short of $2,000.00 That with the fact that we were also paying into an advertising campaign with our monthly payment to the BT the business would be a huge success. I knew that this would require work and dedication and I was very willing to do so to earn the money that I was told that I would earn and based on those figures the business was a fairly easy sale. The major problem is that the company never advertised as promised, the pools never even came close to the projections that sent out. I reached the bronze pool in Sept of 07 and the silver pool in Dec of 07. I reached regional director in Jan of 08, and was only 5 or 6 people from the gold pool. I was expecting to make between $1500 and $1800 based on what we were told. My total for all commissions and pools was less than $750.00.
I questioned the amounts with my upline and the office and what I heard is they will get better, actually they have been declining ever since. With the new matrix I took another hit. I do however believe that the bronze pool will pay more for several months, but until the company has a plan that will keep the passive members in it will decline every month. When you make promises to people they must be kept.
Ronnie it really bothers me when people like yourself and other people will tell me that I am a quitter or a negative person because the company never lived up to there promises. I am sorry but you are wrong, I am a very hard worker and very dedicated but I also have 5 kids that need a place to live and food to eat. I will not deprive my wife and kids to pour money into a program that has made me and many others like myself promises and never kept them. Honesty and integrity are virtues and the company is lacking in both and so is anyone that says that it is OK for them to not fulfill there commitments.
As long as the company advertises that you can be passive and earn money then they need to provide a matrix or pay plan that will offer these passive members a reason to stay in. This matrix is far from that. To much greed at the top.
One last thing, people that work hard and make it to where they are earning good money deserve it. But if you or anyone else deceives others to get it then shame on you.
Richard, The thing is your focusing on the money I can clearly see that from your words. When you focus on something and you do not get it, folks turn away and are robbed of their dreams this is why people fail and can’t make it past the rainy storms.
The one’s who prepare for the bad always are the ones that get ahead. You don’t have to take my word for it look around the world.
Now I agree I was not happy about it either, however my focus was not on the money and this why I kept growing in my business. I worked at it only knowing like in any business when a new concept comes I already know it wont be a smooth ride and challenges will emerge but eventually the tides would settle and it would be a blast.
Anybody who thinks it will be a smooth ride is setting themselves up to lose in the end thus destroying their dreams.
Consider this, your in a football game and expecting to win so what happens when things don’t go your way? Did you plan for the worst? If you did these special teams know how to make it work why? Because they have experience that is why the Veteran Q.B’s know how to get points fast.
Most people never plan for the worst and here is how I know. Only 2% of Americans know how to save their money and this is very sad.
When you have children and something goes wrong do you push them aside and disown them if one thing goes wrong? Of course not you support your children during good & bad times… to succeed in business one has to think it like their baby and you should since it takes care of your life. If you treat it like your baby it will take care of you…
People only know pleasure and good times but flee from the bad. To be strong in life one should empower themselves closer to our loving lord he will give you strength when you need it.
I already know the good changes will outweigh the bad…I’m trying to help you, but do as you wish with the business I am not here to convince anybody.
This is not a convincing business we are CEO’s for our business and until folks can think with this mindset level Success will not come abundantly…
My two cents have a blessed day!
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
http://www.ronniebranch.com
Ronnie,
I think you either missed what I am saying or don’t want to address it. I know as well as anyone what kind of ride a business is. I owned and ran a small roofing and home improvement business for 25 years. Not one time did I tell a customer what a job would cost and then charged more or hired someone and did not pay them what we agreed on.
What I am talking about is morals, ethics and honesty. If the company would have given any kind of explanation as to why they over projected the amounts of money that would be paid at certain levels it would have made me feel better. If there was ever an explanation as to why it took close to 10 months to start any kind of advertising to bring in new people but kept the money for advertising it would have helped. If they would have explained why they needed to sell the free trial members that were brought in with the money that was paid by the members instead of placing them in the trees as promised. When no explanation was ever given for these issues then I can only decide what I believe and the answer is greed. I was once told by a person in the office over a payment issue that they did not have to pay anyone and never have to give a reason why. I canceled my nutronix account that day.
Going to church or having a relationship with God only keeps me from doing what is right or wrong. And it keeps me from promoting a business that I believe is not taking care of its members.
Hey Ronnie,
You’re right. I did take the passive approach in building this business; I’ll never deny that. And boy am I glad I did, after seeing what this “system” has become.
You should know me by now. If I really believe in something and feel the urge and excitement to build it, I get to work.
You saw for yourself the results I had in GC; many times pulling in one personal referral everyday. Yet, even in that scenario, I wasn’t putting my whole heart into effective promotion.
However, you are side-stepping the issues and going off on tangents here, and it certainly isn’t putting you in a good light. You speak as if you’re high on a pedistool in the clouds; and in the end, those with experience see it for what it truly is: reckless optimism. You can’t cover it up with careless assumptions and judgments, such as “You weren’t positive enough” or “You focus more on money than people.” Even if those are true statements, it strays from the problems at hand that you’ve failed to address or discuss.
The real business world is not about exerting reckless optimism and loyalty toward any idea, group, or organization. It’s about completing due diligence, studying the facts and numbers, making comparisons, and arriving at an educated decision.
I can stand on the edge of a cliff and be as optimistic as possible about believing I can spread my hands and fly over the canyon. BUT, that doesn’t mean it will come true. Optimism has its limits; especially in business and marketing, and it should never fully replace the standard practice of realism. That’s how people get hurt and lose their money. You know this to be true: Look at the consequences of those who blindly cheered away without due diligence or realistic evaluations in programs such as 12 Daily Pro, StudioTraffic, Amway, Quixtar, and a multitude of other programs.
I suspect you’ve let your emotions consume you, much like those I’m forced to shake my head at in the HYIP/autosurf arena. Because you are making $3,000 – 4000 a month in the company, you refuse to look at the facts around you and accept the possibility that the Nutronix empire could be flawed or partially corrupted; even though the obvious facts and figures are screaming out to the rest of us with a clear head on our shoulders.
I have received so many horrifying testimonials from people through blog reports, e-mails, and forum quotes stating that the they’ve been lied to, abused, cheated, and abandoned in the Berry Tree program. And, before you even think of refuting this with that ever-so popular excuse “It must have been a bad upline, or they weren’t positive/diligent enough”…know that these misfortunes were directly related to the current and new structure of the company itself.
Don’t believe me? See for yourself, and go ahead and read some of the testimonies and findings produced in this very 250-something comments section of this article. Some are aggressive to an unnecessary level, but others are calm, accurate, and carefully support a popular conclusion that the Berry Tree administration has been irresponsible, deceptive, and greedy. Unfortunately, your unconditional loyalty and position appears to have become a blindfold to all this.
And this isn’t meant to paint everyone with the broad brush. There are many people involved in the high positions of authority, such as you and Gary Smith, that I still respect and believe are truly attempting to help others build a profitable business. It’s a wonder the corporate greed hasn’t already destroyed the good things these people are trying to accomplish.
Quite frankly, I’m not going to bother posting any more testimonies and proof against the Berry Tree here for the time being, because I think most people are going to read the first paragraph, skim over the rest, and attempt to spin my arguments with more “Oh you’re just an angry failure” and “you’re full of negative energy” manipulative garbage.
If I wanted to hear more false dichotomy traps along the lines of “Either you’re positive and successful, or negative and a loser,” I’d go to the conventions in Southfield, MI put on by Amway representatives every week.
“Negativity” and the process of “skepticism, critical thinking, and realistic conclusions” only appear synonymous to unprofessional individuals who think they are ready for the business world. If there’s one thing MLM history has taught us in 50 years, it’s that people who push the “negative” trap on to others have ulterior motives and/or suffer from levels of ignorance.
In conclusion, don’t worry about me. I’m doing just fine, earning over $1K a month online. In the last month alone, I’ve met many mature, like-minded individuals that would like to potentially partner in various activities. I’m looking at a $100-200K income level through the internet by this time next year, and I couldn’t be happier. In the process, I would like to find and help people like Richard, Zeek, Howard, the “Red honor,” and others who have been hurt by the greed and deceptive rhetoric that has overtaken the Berry Tree business.
Thank goodness I was willing to keep my eyes open and never fall prey to the MLM plague of “foolish, unconditional loyalty,” as another in this thread called it. It’s a shame it had to come to this, but I hold true to ethics; my integrity is not for sale. The truth must be shared no matter how many may throw rocks at us for not casting careless smiles.
Now you know. This isn’t an meant as an attack, but only what I honestly believe based on what I’ve seen. I think you’re a good guy and friend, but I also think you’ve let dangerous emotions control you and that you’re somewhat naive on what we’ve been discussing here for several months.
— — — — —
My sincere apologies to anyone who has OR knows someone who has personally lost money in this program.
- Ryan
Hey Ryan,
I’m emotionally fine here brother and even if I was making $0 I would still hold the same feelings because folks who have the core desire for success do not murmur and complain during good & bad times…
I feel the leadership intentions have always been good becuase if it wasn’t why would they enchance the payplan?
It says a lot about a company who takes the time to do things right vs rushing something out there like beta testing.
Do you honestly think they would invest all this time if their hearts where not trying to make it work? They made nutronix work for almost 10 years now and I find it interesting how you forget about that and love to analyze statistics and numbers… Now if it was a startup company I most likely wouldn’t support the company but my faith is in what they have done in the past. Knowing this tells me the Berry Tree will work… My advice for everybody is to stick it out and if you don’t you’ll be hearing many success stories in the future with or without you. Preferablly with you!
Matt Yonin said despite some of the numbers who may not be happy, the new numbers have far offsetted things
Of course naysayers will always look for reasons why to look the other way which these folks severely lack in mindset on what it truly takes to build a business. I know what I’m talking about I’ve seen the worst and the best.
You remember me telling you how Dani Johnson talks on the scriptures when people complain the Lord will not bestow blessings in your life.
It’s like having a toy given by your pa. Why should he give you more when you where not happy from the first gift?
Ryan personally the way you pass judgement on company’s tells me if anything ever goes wrong you’d be heading the opposite direction. Personally I couldn’t work with folks who are like this it clearly shows they are not a team player rather they are winning & more importantly losing to some degree.
I’ll say it again when you have a good leadership team it determines the outcome for a comeback and The Berry tree did just that with their new payplan 2 x matrix.
I think as you grow in age you’ll come to better understand this I know your only 20 and while your a sharp guy Ryan I think you’ll have far great potential when you become more of age.
Team leaders do not abandoned their people and regardless of the outcome outside our powers we stay true to what is important…
As for what is happening in the company. All companys will face challenges at some point and the easy thing to do is run away… This is what the masses do and when you have a breeding ground of negative energy it is easy for folks to get discouraged. My advice is to stick with people who are positive always during good & bad situations these folks clearly have it down.
Ryan I have asked you many times to focus on Dani Johnson training but I know you haven’t and you know this is where we work on developing core mindset.
You can learn all the great things for driving traffic but if the mind is weak it really doesn’t matter…
I give all the glory to God it is his business not mine I have nothing to boost or brag about. Robert Irizzary is ashamed of you Ryan for Berry Bashing but I know you have your reasons.
Just remember the people who complain are the ones who are lacking in life so a good rule of thumb in life is to always listen to folks who have made success happen. Until we can discpline ourselves to listen t others on where we want to be which is their level we will not become successful and or have limited success.
It makes perfect sense to me. I have no bad emotions here I am just saying it as I see it I love everybody and do wish folks success and peace in life.
Take care folks!
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
I also wanted to say Successful people understand obstacles and challenges in life. If things in life where easy everybody would be rich!
People who are not successful are constantly looking for shortcuts to success and often times this comes at the sacrifice of lost of time and money not to mention a lot of frustration.
These people justify their through their reasons of why it didn’t work for them, but usually always have nothing to show for in terms of income to create the belief level they are in fact experts..
My question is do we listen to folks who have Made Success happen? Or do we listen to folks who have not made success happen and are easily triggered to negative energy?
Who will become your leader? It is your money after all so plan wisely.
The goal in life is to build wealth it is our dream. So My advice for folks who truly desire success is to become disciplined and learn from other great leaders who truly understand this.
I take my business beyond just merely thinking of it as a business. I take it to a whole new level of faith and trust and if I did not do this, I would have easily been lead astray to naysayers thoughts that would plaque my success and the Success of others.
Putting your faith in the Lord to Stand Firm is important. This is why I lead through Christ before my business and He has continued to bless me and explode my business beyond belief.
Just wanted to share some thoughts….
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
http://www.ronniebranch.com
Hi,
I joined theberrytree, because my upline paid me $30 + the $55 to do so, after I had tried the trial. It all sounded great until I found this site and started reading. I am already self employed and I have been looking for something else to supplement my income.
I’d like to hear from Richard, or berrytreeinfo about what they have going. My e-mail is theveteransvoice@gmail.com
Thanks
Well Reese, That’s the idea there are two sides to every coin
One side = Positive
One side = Negative
If folks want abundance one must always stay positive. In marriage it is the same way we can choose to give into negative thoughts or stay positive. I have been with my wife for 14 years and on 15th year we got married and you know why we lasted this long?
Because I always stayed positive and forgive and forget during the trials of the relationship. Having said that goes along way in business.
Wishing you Success!
Ronnie Branch
Well this may be due to the fact until they have ironed out some issues iss why it is best to not say anything at all seing how the first comp plan was not well though thought out in the beginning..
Do you expect a startup company backed by a 9 year debt free company to have it right the first go? Or are you kidding yourself?
Do you pass judgement? Where is the compassion and support towards the company that wants to change your life? instead of being upset I think you need to praise because they actually are helping the little guys make it in this company vs the dinosaur companys.
They have an exciting new payplan I’m really excited about that is helping my group grow daily. Because I held faith during good & bad times is always why the Lord entrusted me with more in all aspects in life. I hope this helps you.
Why should a company say something and be held to it when one does not? Now I can’t speak for the management it would not be in my place but common sense tells me this.
My advice is to plug into the training calls to stay connected with the many thousands of positive people who all have a vision in life and believe in this company.
For all the new folks who read this I also wanted to say when considering information from others to be valid. You need to ask them how many videos & audio collection do they have?
No videos or to few what kind of leader are they?
No audio?
Do you follow their lead or do you listen to a simple guy like me who has 128 videos on youtube and over 2 years of audio from being consistent in everything in life?
The choice is yours… I don’t get credit, The Lord does I just run the show for him and speak the truth.
Hopefully I’ve given some light… All I wish is for folks to make it happen I can only share my knowledge but in the end it is up to the people.
God Bless,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Just so folks Know I do not support All Star Alliance & Elite Brigade team builds this is old news that went the opposite direction of what I had envisioned….
My team build is the Lords Champions which has gone extremely well.
I have no control of the Blog and I have asked Ryan to take this down. Let us see if he respects my decision…If not no worries we live learn and move forward in life.
God Bless!
Thanks,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Here is a interesting Post from Harold Bryant he is a good leader in this company
1. A company, organization or entity that makes CLAIMS with no intention of fulfilling those claims.
2. A company, organization or entity that has no morals or integrity and it’s primary ‘mission’ is financial gain with no possible return to it’s clients.
3. A company, organization or entity with no known products or services.
Attempting my best here to be unbiased, I nor anyone else can legitimately say that The Berry Tree is a scam.
(1) The Berry Tree has made no CLAIMS of income. It does not state on the site that there is a guaranteed amount of income that you’ll receive in a certain amount of time.
(2) Being that I’ve talked to the owners and creators of The Berry Tree (face to face), I can honestly say that MORALS & INTEGRITY stands out more than any other network marketing company or entity I’ve ever dealt with. It was a pleasure to meet Art & Rob Phelps (brothers), Bob & Blair Bremner (father & son) and many other executives of the company in Orlando, Florida at the 2007 Convention.
(3) Being that I receive products on a monthly bases and have personally visited the Nutronix/Berry Tree headquarters in Mechanicsville, VA, it would be an outright lie for anyone to say that The Berry Tree or Nutronix International don’t have legitimate products. Why did I go there? Because I like to know who I’m working with and since the headquarters is only 120 miles from me it was not an expensive trip. Bob Bremner (one of the owners of Nutronix International) gave me a personal tour of the building. I even got ‘toured’ through the shipping/receiving area where I visually saw REAL PEOPLE packaging REAL PRODUCTS to be shipped out (April 1st 2007).
Of course The Berry Tree is a division of Nutronix International. They ship their products from the same location (Mechanicsville, Va) as mentioned. They both are helping people in over 60 countries around the world. I’ve introduced people to their products and have received some excellent feed back on those products. Although they are not allowed to make claims of curing any disease, many of their members would love to make those claims for them.
With all of that being said, in the past I’ve also worked with other companies in the Health & Wellness field like Melaleuca and Shaklee, just to name a few. Honestly speaking, those 2 companies really had EXCELLENT products as well. However, I joined those businesses because I wanted to help people AND get paid a decent income at the same time. The latter did not happen. In my honest opinion, if you want a spot in the Health and Wellness Home Business Arena, there’s no other company online or offline that can even come close to the compensation plan of The Berry Tree. If money is not an issue for you, then go join Shaklee or Melaleuca. But let it be known that you’ll have to convince your prospects to convert their entire household to Shaklee or Melaleuca products which are very good but outrageously expensive.
Below are statements that are shown to my prospects before they even get to my signup page:
Begin personal message
—————————
1. You will earn credits for just being a member in our program. Once you reach the defined amount of credits you will begin to earn money MONTHLY from every membership order in the ENTIRE Company (Not just members in your downline).
2. A small portion of your monthly membership fee goes toward guaranteed advertising. This is advertising done by the company on your behalf. Within a few months you will begin to see members placed into your downline with no effort on your part.
Note: The above mentioned incentives (credits and advertising) are a part of your membership. These incentives are earned by both passive members and active members. However, as you’ll soon learn in our compensation plan, the members who are referring others to the program will have the potential to earn MORE money and also they will have the potential to earn money FASTER than ‘passive’ members.
—————————–
End of personal message
That info is shown once a prospect begins the tour of my website. If anyone would like to see where this message is then they can go to the page below and follow the ‘Quick Tour’ link. I’m not sure if this is allowed here on ripoffreport.com but at least you will see that we are not ripping people off. There is no webform to fill out. I’m giving you direct passage to bypass my webform so that you can read and listen to exactly how The Berry Tree works. You can take that info and signup below the person that originally referred you or not at all. This is just to give you the facts:
http://quickstarttowealth.com/members/harold/thanks
So why are people crying ‘Berry Tree Ripoff’?
The answer to that question is quite obvious. This is not to put the blame on any Berry Tree members or any specific groups of people. But it is a fact that many members do not follow up with their new signups who are just joining their organization. These new signups have NO IDEA what to do or how to become more ‘involved’ with the program.
When those newbies don’t get the attention that they need or have no idea what’s going on then they say, ‘I’ve been in for 2 months and I haven’t made a dime!’ Well, they don’t know that they’ve already accumulated 2 BMCs (1 upon signup & 1 every 2 months) which is bringing them closer to earning on EVERY monthly membership order in the entire company! There’s no guarantee that you’ll get 1, 2 or 3 guaranteed signups within your first month or even your second month. However, there IS a guarantee that you WILL earn those Berry Member Credits just by remaining a member. BMCs are a powerful part of The Berry Tree’s Compensation Plan but yet most newbies don’t even understand how they work, not to mention how many they’ve accumulated.
Another reason that some current members are not as successful as others is that they refuse to learn how to market the products which is the main part of the program. These very few members joined The Berry Tree and began marketing their affiliate links online and offline. This was a bad move. Why? Because people (prospects) who are interested in the opportunity CAN NOT contact the owner of that affiliate site. There’s no lead capture form, no sponsor email address and no telephone number for prospects to call. Again, this is where they are totally lost and have refused to check into all of the services that are listed in their Automatic Builder backoffice. Instead of marketing their affiliate sites they should be marketing a lead capture page. I’ve even gone to the extent of creating capture pages for my team to use as an additional option. This is in addition to the abundance of resources that the company has already in place upon signup.
Below is information also that I copied and pasted from my ‘Quick Tour’ product page where I explain what is included in the $55.95 charge… Product, shipping/handling, Customer/Tech Support, Website/Hosting, GUARANTEED ADVERTISING:
————————————
begin special note
What Is GUARANTEED ADVERTISING?
Within the next few months of your membership with The Berry Tree you’ll begin to see members fall into your downline through the company’s advertising efforts which is included with your membership.
Therefore, you DO NOT have to ADVERTISE the O2 Berry Product or The Berry Tree Opportunity if you are willing to be patient by waiting on the company’s efforts and spillover from your upline. However, keep in mind that this DOES NOT mean that you will immediately be in profit while allowing the company and your upline to do ALL of the work for you. Again, the members who are actively promoting The Berry Tree Opportunity will earn money much faster than the members depending on the guaranteed advertising alone.
Furthermore, Guaranteed Advertising is done by ‘Cost Per Acquisition’ (CPA). This means that there is a price paid for each new member brought into your downline. For example… Let’s say that $11 from your monthly membership is going toward guaranteed advertising. It may cost the company $1,000 to get 30 members to take the free trial. This means that the CPA is $33.33. This also means that with your $11 (taken from your monthly membership fee), it would take you approximately 3 months to receive one (1) enrollee through the guaranteed advertising. This is ONLY an example of how ‘CPA’ works.
————————————
End special note
Now as far as the ‘Failing’ of the guaranteed advertising is concerned… When the Berry Tree launched we all had an 8×3 matrix. When the company sponsored someone and placed that person in the next available position that person could only benefit 2 other members (because of the 3 levels). There simply was not enough company sponsored signups to accommodate EVERYONE in the program. The Berry Tree recognized this and re-structured the comp plan. We now have a 2×12 matrix where a member can potentially earn 10 times the income as before. Furthermore, with the 2×12 matrix, even if someone is placed on your level 9 this person will benefit 8 other members. With this huge change in the comp plan, guaranteed advertising will work much faster, spillover is more likely and the members who stayed with us are glad they did. My point here is that the company has ALL of the qualities of a good company and they’ve proved it by putting in the extra hours to make sure that we members have the best mlm program on the net.
The part that amazes me most is that people claiming that The Berry Tree is a ripoff are the ones who have obviously never come to any conference calls, training calls, etc. I know this because if they would have been there then they would have had the perfect opportunity to ask questions and get answers. Again, The Berry Tree has never promised anyone that they would earn a certain amount is a given time. This is a real home business and I look at the guaranteed advertising as a bonus that 99.9% of the other companies don’t do. This is a Network Marketing company and networking is about introducing products to others, PERIOD. The marketing tools in The Berry Tree are simply amazing. They even have leads that members can purchase for faster growth. These are leads that have already gone to that members ‘Berry Tree free trial’ site. They also have a lead source in place where the leads have already been pre-called for them. Anyone not having success in The Berry Tree and calling it a ripoff is simply someone looking for a ‘get rich quick scheme’ which The Berry Tree is not. It’s a real home business which takes time to build. I’m living proof that once you start building it builds fast. But you only can build with people who take the time to understand how the program works.
Bottom line…
People will complain about Walmart being too crowed even though Walmart has (in general) the best prices on retail products. People will complain about gas prices even though there are so many ways to earn an additional income to cover those fuel expenses. People will complain about everything on the Internet although they would cry like a baby if the government took the Internet away. The Berry Tree is an EXCELLENT income opportunity but if you don’t use it correctly AND learn all of the details then you might also unjustly call it a Ripoff.
Learn All there is to know about The Berry Tree!
I joined The Berry Tree and Nutronix International on February 24th, 2007. I was a full time truck driver at the time. I worked the business for about a year before I was able to retire from the trucking industry. As of March 1st, 2008 I now work for MYSELF. Even though my commute to work was only about 12 miles, I’m now able to commute to work in about 12 STEPS (down the hall into my office).
I think that ripoffreport.com is an excellent site. We all can expose TRUE scammers here. But wouldn’t it be better to expose the companies that are taking your money and closing their doors the next day? Or exposing the ones who are intentionally robbing people with no regard? It’s a shame to see people get misinformed about an opportunity that could really change their lives for the better.
I hope this rebuttal helps people in making a decision about The Berry Tree. It was certainly my pleasure to write this ‘insider’ report. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any additional questions about this opportunity.
Sincerely,
Harold Bryant
Ronnie,
I’d be happy to take any and all All-Star Alliance promotional material down. Been meaning to it- scout’s honor- just been very busy with other things at the moment.
As for what Robert or anyone else thinks, I could care less. I’m going to honestly describe how I feel about the leaders of this organization and the deception and misleading that has occurred. I like Robert; fantastic individual. But, eventually, if he does the same research, he’ll come to same conclusion. Very few have actually looked deep into the skeleton of this organization because they’re so willing to eat anything the leaders put in their faces. You may think we’re alone; we’re not.
As for your attempt to “tactfully” throw some age-criticism in your mix of replies, you of all people should know that me being “21″ has nothing to do with this. I know how that rant works- in your eyes, as long as I follow you, your idea of “perfect training,” and your program, I qualify for the ranking “mature.” If not, well then I’m just too young to understand, right?
Well, I guess that’s all in your opinion, which you have every right to as an individual. I’ve moved on to new training; Dani is great, but the effective marketing trends of this decade have moved on to a new convenience and leverage, involving others to call you up and beg you for information. We’ll be doing some experimenting with that, as I know some people who are earning closer to $8-10K with their methods or promotion.
In conclusion, don’t forget: I’m not dropping the Berry Tree because I failed to build a team. If that was the case, I would have been out months ago. As I said earlier, I never put my heart into it. I’m dropping the BT because it is currently run by irresponsible leaders, deceptive practices, and it revolves around a matrix plan that I do not believe will serve new member’s best interests.
- Ryan
Hey Ryan,
Your making a big mistake not adding Dani Johnson with your training. You can have great leverage and watch it all fall apart if your now growing a Army of Leaders.
Just my personal opinion but I’ve seen great marketers I wont mention names get many but their conversion is not good and or it falls apart fast.
Why is that? It is because they do not step up and become a leader themself and coordinate things as a leader should. You get the idea…
Why saturate your good name and not be able to properly lead them to success? Just my thoughts on it and yes I think what your doing is good but to be truly great Dani is where it’s at.
As for the company Ryan nobody is perfect and I think that is quite unfair on your behalf to pass judgement and lead folks to think one situation when truly the Berry Tree has changed many lives…
Goto the http://berrytreenews.com/ and click testimonials and u know what they all have in common Ryan?
THEY ARE POSITIVE!
Not saying your not, perhaps just focused in another direction I respect that but the outcome of success comes from positive thinking. If you manifest your thoughts here and I come back to see a large list of comments of people running in every direction. I had to come by to help with crowd control.
The owners are not deceptive or irresponsible or Nutronix would not be a almost 10 year debt free company.
The berry tree is a little baby that needs time to condition. Sure there are challenges and not all will be happy but I will say they are committed to helping folks become successful. They have put a lot of time and energy in their new pay plan to ensure its done right so you as the distributor are happy.
Anyways take care…
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Ronnie,
I never said I was purging Dani Johnson from my training; that was an assumption on your part. My hint was that Dani’s training alone isn’t enough to reach the highest levels of marketing knowledge in this day and age.
Bob has been saying the same thing for months now. Surely, you haven’t forgotten.
Quote:
Just because you are unable to call a spade a “spade” doesn’t force others to keep their mouths shut. This isn’t about finding ways to “judge” others, though I know you’re keen on spinning our arguments that way.
Maybe some of them did make mistakes; others did not, are earning $100Ks each month through AB/BT and are still trying to grub $100s here and there selling the leads they originally said were going to be brought in by the company to help fill the matrix faster. What happened to the company advertising? Why did they hype the original site up so much and tell prospects that they would be looking at a full tree paying $1336 per month within 2 years for NO work? Why is an undervalued lead with half the perks of a normal downline member being dished out to loyal members for over $100 a piece? Why not just fill up the matrix at a rapid pace as they originally promised for the good of all members? Why incorporate a new payplan that forces you to recruit 3-4 times as many people to earn the same residual as you were before? Why establish a matrix that only pays you on segregated levels and prolongs your break-even point in the business?
Tip of the iceberg, bud. And the claim “they have to work out a few bugs” doesn’t cut it anymore.
This isn’t about me judging them as “good” or “evil.” I just don’t agree with their decisions, and I would think that people who make that kind of money would be more responsible; they owe it to their organization that builds their paycheck in the first place.
We can still find a way to agree to disagree, can we not?
- Ryan
Well again by saying that tells me we can focus on the negative feelings within or we can see what they are doing for us in the future…
What I look for is what they are doing in the future if nothing they don’t get my support simply put regardless of what I make I’m nobody’s puppet or anybody’s employee that is the attitude of a leader and handling his business.
I truly believe in their leadership because of the things I have seen them do in the past & what I see for the future…
I can’t speak for Bt/Nutronix since They do not tell me anything but I am a good judge of character… It is my belief they did the things they did through sheer enthusiasm but realized it had some flaws… It doesn’t mean we pass judgement however if their intentions are good ones.
The way I look at it is what does a company do after they seen some flaws? That is the question we must consider carefully… From the time they have invested and dedication to ensuring the little guys have a place to earn from the entire company is very exciting. They have weekly training calls and berry tree webinar’s and the upcoming convention this being our 3rd tells me they are committed to helping this company move forward…
Folks can pass judgement or not but just remember it is the berry tree that has vested interest in doing what the majority of MLM’s will not do for you.
Personally I am happy for as long as they are committed to improving and making the berry tree the best it can be.
From the actions I’ve seen it clearly shows that and that is what matters the most for the future of the company.
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
…I’ll take that as a “yes” for now.
I just want you to know that I wish no ill-will toward you, buddy. It’s been a fun run; it really has. I just don’t agree with the founder’s decisions/actions and I don’t see things improving with this current system set in place, and after a year of excuses, I’ve decided to let it go and concentrate on things I know that are currently paying and satisfying people.
A couple months ago, I said – “One day, we’ll be on the beaches and I’ll buy you a cocktail of choice!” I still plan on doing that. Take care
- Ryan
Rome was not built in a day Ryan…
Folks often wonder why money doesn’t fall from the sky and I say welcome to the World of Life & The Internet lol
I’m living proof that if one is willing to step up he or she can become successful…
No worries about bad feelings…I love everybody always because I live in Christ and I hope you do to. This has always empowered me to stand firm.
Sometimes Ryan you need to look into people and company’s more aside from the traditional methods you use when making considerations…
For example you should pray about things & interview success stories not just drag on the drama and bad…
A fair judge looks from both angles not just one and keeps a closed mind. A great leader always keeps all things in consideration just as I have answered and satisfied some peoples questions to some degree. I cannot speak for Nutronix or Berry tree but I know Gary fairly well and He has known Art for several years.
Anyways I’m looking forward to seeing others become successful in the Berry Tree.
Take a easy..
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
That’s exactly what I plan to do.
- Ryan
Hello Ronnie,
I would like to address several comments that you made,
Quote “1) The Berry Tree has made no CLAIMS of income. It does not state on the site that there is a guaranteed amount of income that you’ll receive in a certain amount of time.”
You said that you were at the Orlando convention as I was, did you take a day off as I know I was there from the beginning to the end. Matt stood on the stage and presented a chart showing what the Beery Tree would bring you in 2 to 3 years as an investment compared to 3 other investment plans including stocks and bank interest. The chart showed that in 2 to 3 years your return would be $1336.00 per month. I surly think that this is projecting a guarantee of some sort. The chart showed that it would take from 8 to 66 years to reach the same income with similar investments in the stock market or interest baring bank accounts.
quote “Why should a company say something and be held to it when one does not? Now I can’t speak for the management it would not be in my place but common sense tells me this.”
This statement just boggles my mind. Can I ask what are you thinking, are you saying that it is OK for any company anywhere to not back what they are saying. That they can mislead and misrepresent at any time? And also never be held accountable? Please you have to be kidding me.
Quote “Do you expect a startup company backed by a 9 year debt free company to have it right the first go? Or are you kidding yourself?”
Well the answer to that is, if the company was not backed by a 9 year old company I would expect some corrections having to be made, but with the experience coming from Nutronix and there leadership I would certainly expect a lot less turmoil than what has happened. The major thing is that all of my life I have taken full responsibly for ever thing that I have done and never passed it on to anyone else. What the Beery Tree has done is made mistakes and have made the members pay for them, If The Berry Tree backed by Nutronix a 9 year old debt free company had to pay for there own mistakes then they would not make as many.
I would also like to offer that I have been married for 31 years to the same woman and we have been together for 33 years and have 5 children whom I have instilled the same morals of honesty in that I process. On another note I was born on a farm and lived in logging camps and on a farm for the 1st 12 years of my life. I was brought up by hard working honest people that would never deceive or cheat anyone and they installed all of the morality and honesty in me that I have carried my whole life and that far surpasses any videos ever put on you tube or anywhere else. Do I want wealth and to take care of my family? The answer is yes but not if means having to deceive or cheat any other person on this planet.
Regardless of what you say this matrix will not keep the passive members in. There is no way someone will continue to pay $55 a month with the hopes of making $12 from the matrix after there are 14 members in their tree. And 20 months from now to receive 10 BMC’s so that they can receive the bronze pool money.
In the 14 months that I have been in the Berry Tree I have received 1 person from the company and now I hear the same thing that they are on their way, I have been hearing this for 12 of the 14 months. Now it’s time for the company to “show me the money” as the saying goes. I have already shown what I will do, now it’s there turn to step up to the plate and deliver as promised.
Hi Ryan,
Been a while.
You’ve seen through the smoke, but there’s no need to discard this place.
I’ll buy it from you. My conditions are full and isolated access to the admin panel and the url currently pointed at berrytreeinfo.wordpress.com
Reply here or email me. It does not matter.
Richard Show you the money states that’s why your in it…
How about this Who can I help today now that’s a great attitude for success? Doesn’t matter what business you join I can already see it now from you if things don’t go your way your raising heat. You don’t attract people in any business with this mindset and you can see how your previous business means nothing as it does not help you in this situations since it is a very different.
I never mentioned that testimonial, that was taken from Harold Bryant.
I’ll tell you right now this is not a perfect world we live in and If I thought like you I’d certainly never go anywhere in life. I already can tell having this conversation will fall on deaf ears so There is no need to have this conversation.
I can already tell you will always twist the conversation back so what’s the point? There are plenty of people out there who are positive like and will want this business.
It is time to start focusing on the positive Wishing folks great success.
Time to start helping people
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Hey Guardian, Honestly buying this blog may sound like a good idea however depending on your intentions if it’s for building your BT business I wouldn’t recommend as this type of conversation will pull in less positive like folks and are not the kind of people you want in your million dollar business.
Take care,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Well Ronnie,
You did it again, you fail to answer any questions and spin everything, “Show me the money” is an expression, but when I joined this business it was to produce an income and if you or anyone else says that you have a different reason other than producing an income, I would have to say that you are fibbing.
As I was reading a lot of your responses I really started believing that were sincere in what you are saying, I am starting to believe different.
I actually went to your website and looked it over but could not get past the 3rd page. Would not accept the information and sent me to a page that said something about 3rd parties. At any rate you and I probably could not work together anyway, so it is best.
I am probably the hardest worker you have ever seen, but I have to believe in what I am doing. And when I need to know something I need to know it, not good at getting half baked answers and the run around.
Guardian!
Assuming you are THE “Guardian” I remember, I’m quite surprised and even a bit honored to see you here. I thought you preferred to stay away from these “snake pits,” or however you called them
I’ll be honest with you, sir, I’m haven’t quite decided what I want to do with this blog. I was thinking it may be best to simply shut it down, upon making my statement. But, I have doubts that a statement is even worthy of my time; I should have known that the “blind will continue to lead the blind.” I think that’s how you put it, and I now see exactly what you mean.
You are one of the first people in the world I would trust with this collection. If I decide to sell or hand it over, you’ll be at the top of the list.
I will talk to you later.
- Ryan
Of course it will be half baked answers for you because it is not something you wish to hear. People with the same mindset as I have will see it crystal clear.
I’ve met many smart and hard workers but undisciplined people who have potential but it means nothing if they do not have all the required ingredients to become successful…
I’m talking about folks who see it as I do… A good Christian who is guided through faith during the good & bad times.
If I lost everything tomorrow I would not murmur and complain because my spirit is strong and I put my trust in what the Lord will put on my table. I’ve been in some bad situations where one’s faith will be tested do we listen to the Lord or do we lust for the money? We can live our life to choose to see the error in others or we can choose to love and do the right thing.
You speak about integrity and have forgotten the most important thing of all which is compassion and showing your love and support regardless of anything else…
That my friend is the most important thing as everything else falls into the mix of it…
I invite you to watch my 77 Light & Dark Journey to become closer with the Lord it sounds as if you have some Darkness in your heart.
http://www.youtube.com/lordschampions
In this series I have 76 Light videos of situations of the right way to do it and 76 videos Dark Videos of situations of doing it the wrong way…
Also for the Elite Brigade of Entrepreneurs I no longer support it and fully respect Ryan, however fortunately I am supporting the Lords champions and we have gained 7 members already and I have 13 more spots available where I’m covering there monthly autoship each and every month until they are in profit.
Now one can choose to focus on what is good and positive or one can choose to raise fists and never have peace and happiness in their spirits.
Take care make it a great day folks!
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
http://www.youtube.com/ronniebranch
(77 Day Challenge for MLM Success)
Hey Ryan I think you need my Light & Dark Journey
I spotted that comment, and worthy of your time ? Brother Let’s get rid of the Darkness even I have had darkness in my heart thankfully I’m washing it all out….
You said,
But, I have doubts that a statement is even worthy of my time; I should have known that the “blind will continue to lead the blind.
Ronnie,
The last 30 comments are proof that a statement is probably not worth my time. As for the rest, interpret it however you will. Guardian understands; that was my only intention.
I wonder what he’s up to…this is ever so interesting.
- Ryan
The problems in our life are worth our time Ryan… Now for the lord and the lost souls who have no belief or some belief in their own way…
It is up to God’s warriors to help them always and will be worth your time…
Ryan I have folks call me up who cannot even hear for nothing and I already know they won’t be successful, however the kindness of my heart gives them 30minutes to 1 hour and the reason for that is I look pass the business itself and I focus more on the actual people… Because of that I’ve seen some actually do something nothing big but the little things we do surely go along way..
Now I’m not perfect or claim to be heck I know when we walk in Christ we are always thinking of how can we help others. Your a good guy Ryan and I know this is a opportunity to bring folks into a second thing for you being their hero…
A good hero leader however you want to call it in my eyes never takes advantage of situations when one can I feel it is wrong… Now I know you haven’t done that but I know some view you as their hero and some view me as theirs that is just how it goes.
Personally I mentioned the Lord’s champions for the sole reason that I will continue to support what I believe in to be a great business since I know Elite Brigade is no longer around and to show that people are willing to make it happen. Some folks may feel lost and as leaders we have to give them some direction and at least show them there will be support.
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
How are you Ryan,
Been a while, indeed. Yes this is the same Guardian. The one and only don’t you forget it buster!
It appears you have remembered. Kudos to you, son!!
Never argue with an idiot. You only bring yourself down to their level.
Your antics have me lmfao. Where there is mayhem and turbulence there is also profit.
I’d be happy to purchase this from you. Let me know what you decide.
In the process I’ll even teach you another valuable lesson. It is one you have probably come to suspect.
Salutations
Wow that was powerful Guardian… You definitely need my light & dark challenge brother but again your choice
Take a easy…
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Hey folks who are building the Berry tree, I have just released my new team message and I welcome others to hear me.
Enjoy!
http://members.instantaudio.com/postcards/?10025870X1413
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
I have been reading these posts and I just want to add my experience with Berry Tree. I joined as a free enrollee by paying the shipping and handling. As per their website, I was supposed to receive $40.00 worth of berry tree products for only the cost of shipping and handling. Imagine my surprise when I received 3 measly packets of Berry Green Boost (Directions:Mix in at least 8oz. of water or juice. Shake well. Enjoy health!). And that costs $40.00?
Needless to say I cancelled my autoship right away. If they can manage to fool people they are supposed to be courting to join, what can they do to those people who keep paying $50 plus month after month?
Faith
To anyone considering the Berry Tree
I want to let you know that I do not believe that the Berry Tree is a scam or a complete rip off. I think that based on this new matrix it makes it extremely hard to succeed. The Berry Tree promotes a passive program but to have any kind of success you must bring in members and a lot of them. Make sure that you look at the comp plan before you enroll as a passive member and you will see that the very most you can earn from the matrix is $12.00 a month, you can see that at http://www.btcompplan.com and then click on matrix and you will see what I am talking about. ( You will never earn more than $12.00 from the matrix unless to sponsor at least 1 member). I know some people that are doing very well with this business but what they will not tell you is that they have been with Nutronix for years and was building that business, then when the Berry Tree opened they got the downline to join the Berry Tree so they started with a good amount of members, that is very good for them, Everyone that I know that is doing well did it that way . This new Matrix and comp plan will only make the people at the top more money and makes it nearly impossible for new people to succeed. Keep in mind that this is only my opinion, based on what I went thru in the 14 months that I was in the Berry Tree.
The way that I reached that is The Berry Tree promotes a passive program promoting an income by only staying loyal and paying your $55.95 per month, and you will get spillover and company enrolled members. Based on the fact that most new people come in because they do not want to promote and advertise, that eliminates your chances of spillover as spillover comes from the members above you promoting the business and bringing in new members. Being that most are passive not many are promoting thus very little spillover. Company enrolled members (CEMS) come from advertising done by the company, I know as of April it had not been very effective, and if it does pick up there are approximately 11,000 members in the Berry Tree now and as CEMS are brought in they are distributed throughout the members matrix’s. Assuming that each CEM goes into 4 matrix’s they will need over 2700 CEMS for you to get 1, and each round it will take more. Most likely you will receive one every 2 or 3 months maybe. The only thing that you really have to look forward to is reaching 10 Berry Member Credits and getting paid for the bronze pool which will take 20 months at $55.95 per month, and that is being just a member of the Berry Tree. You will be told that you can reach it in 10 months and that is true. You will need an autoship from Nutronix of at least 100cv which is around $130.00 a month and to also be a member of Automaticbuilder which is $9.95 a month. The total is just short of $200.00 a month and when you reach the bronze pool it will be $100.00 or less and maybe you will have the 14 members under you to get the $12.00 from the matrix. Last month it was less than $21.00 but that have changed the comp plan so it will be around $100.00 but no promises are made that it will stay that way.
I have always felt and I still feel that The Berry Tree is a great idea and has can be made for success, but the need is for a comp plan that will keep the new and passive members in after they enroll. Until this is done the Berry Tree will not succeed.
Again this is my opinion based on 14 months as a Berry Tree member.
The power of the Berry Tree for the passive member will lie in the berry credits and reaching bronze pool. What company can you join and honestly earn from the entire company being completely passive?
The good news is each member puts $5 in the bronze pool and we have the opportunity to earn from the entire company. I don’t know about others but I love the fact regardless if my team did well or not I’m earning from the entire company thats powerful.
That is like having a founding position in the company for life and it wouldn’t matter when one joins.
Let’s look at some facts… There are far more negative people then positive statistics show only 3-5% are considered wealthy.. Maybe 20% are considered middle class & the remaining 75% are living in poverity…
So what does this tell you? If you want to succeed in life you listen to the 3-5%ers if it is your goal to build wealth it’s that simple…
God bless,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
http://www.youtube.com/ronniebranch
(77 Day Challenge for MLM Success)
Faith We get 15 packs not 3…. Folks who read posts need to understand some of the information people present here is not 100% accurate and for good reason they do not clearly have a vision to change their life.
This mindset clearly will never reach a strong level of abundance I have seen several thousands like you faith come and go in the MLM Industry…
I wish you luck in your journey and if you ever wish to succeed you need to plug into
http://www.danijohnson.com
Work on mindset for a good while if you ever wish to succeed in network marketing doesn’t matter what business u do… It is a vehicle until you improve you not the vehicle it won’t matter. Just trying to help… Again you can listen to somebody who is making it happen or listen to people like faith it’s your call my brothers & sisters in Christ.
God Bless,
Ronnie Branch
“Homeless Rebel”
Faith it sounds like you got the free trial 3 packets for $4.95 cents… The full member pack is $50 and you get 15 packets
“Let’s look at some facts… There are far more negative people then positive statistics show only 3-5% are considered wealthy.. Maybe 20% are considered middle class & the remaining 75% are living in poverity…
So what does this tell you?”
It tells me very plainly that you, Mr. Branch, are currently incapable of understanding the difference between positivity and professionalism.
I’ve reviewed your drivel. You are a humorous one.
I don’t doubt that you’ve exalted yourself to a position of an mlm sage in your own mind, but in reality you could not be more incorrect.
Tell me, Mr. Branch, are you also one of those individuals who repeatedly reads over their own posts and flatters themselves with their own feelings of superficial accomplishment, experience, and intelligence?
A rhetorical question of course. No doubt you would never admit it.
Enough though. Humor us all with more fluff and uncouth rationalization.
You’ve become a pro at this trade.
Adieu.
My blogging buddy, Ryan
Have you decided on your COA?
But in their website, they said I will be receiving products worth $40 plus for the price of shipping and handling.